Towing trouble

[77FordTruckMan]

Hi, I've been using my truck to tow a big 19 foot boat lately and it does fine on flat surfaces but going uphill it can barley pull it. I drop down to about 15-20mph on some of the bigger hills, shifting down doesn't help much either. I will not let it rev very high for fear of blowing a head gasket or something. I was wondering what I can do to improve the towing capabilities of this truck, it has a c6 that is out of a car so I don't know if that makes a difference or not, it is a 351m with headers and dual exhaust and a 4bbl carb. I don't know what the gearing in the rear is but I'm thinking changing that might help and not be too difficult.

 

[Workin' Rig]

You definatly got a problem....

I pull a 7000lb 30ft camper with my 400 and an automatic, and even with 3.07 gears i can still keep 45-50 pretty easy up hill...

Letting it rev isnt gonna hurt, unless you get stupid with it, if you got a loud exhaust you might only be at 2500rpm and sound like 6,000. Get a tach to

You might have a carburator issue...does it bog down when you step on it and start bucking or anything? Or is it just nutless???

I would start with the simple things first, a good tune up, maybe rebuild the carb, do a compression check on the engine.

Regearing isnt hard if you just swap the rear end, just make sure you get one thats compatiable with your springs, unhook the brake lines, driveshaft, E brake cable and u bolts and your in business.

Im going to regear mine, but not so much because of a complete lack of power, i just want it to take some of the stress off the trans.

 

[77FordTruckMan]

The carburetor is only a few years old and it works pretty good. The tach sounds like a good idea, I have one somewhere, what rpm should be my limit? I do have a burned valve in one of the cylinders so I am not getting much compression out of it, and I have to occasionally replace the plug to get it to keep firing. I added a picture to the first post, boat is for sale/trade if anyone near York pa. in interested...

 

[Workin' Rig]

Fixed your burned valve

I *think* 5500RPM is the redline on these engines, but id keep it lower then 4,000, anything past that your just sucking gas and making noise.

But that valve being shot it probley the cause of 90% of your trouble...im guessing that boat weighs what? Prolly around 4500lbs? That shouldnt even break a sweat....

Heres what i tow...

 

[77FordTruckMan]

Wow,I did see that in that other thread, that's pretty impressive. The only reason why I haven't gotten the valve fixed is because I've been wanting to swap in a 390 but I've kind-of been waiting till the 351 dies or something, they told me $700 to tear it apart so I figured I might as well swap in a 390.

 

[Workin' Rig]

Swap in that 390 then lol.

Even a good running 351M is no match for your average 390. Most 390s run as hard as a 460.

 

[77FordTruckMan]

Will a 390 bolt up to my c6?

 

[Workin' Rig]

Im not 100% sure if the FE and the M's use the same bolt pattern...I *think* they do....but im not postive....

 

[LEB Ben]

Swap in that 390 then lol.

Even a good running 351M is no match for your average 390. Most 390s run as hard as a 460.

Ehhh...400 would be easier and less of a pig as the 390. Comparable 460's of the same era aren't the glitz and glam everyone wants to make them.

Will a 390 bolt up to my c6?

No...you need the FE patterned bell housing

 

[LEB Ben]

Im not 100% sure if the FE and the M's use the same bolt pattern...I *think* they do....but im not postive....

351M/400/429/460 will bolt up together.

 

[Workin' Rig]

I drove a 73 F100 with a 390....the 400 is strong but not as strong as the 390...IMO....

Most 460s ive had experince with are pigs.

 

[LEB Ben]

I drove a 73 F100 with a 390....the 400 is strong but not as strong as the 390...IMO....

Most 460s ive had experince with are pigs.

This discussion can go on for thousands of posts...very rarely are engine discussions non-bias (ie my sister-in-law's dog's owner's 2nd cousin twice removed had a 302 and it was the worst engine ever...so I swore them off) or apples to apples (ie the Kaase 460/70 460/etc my buddy has blew the doors off my stock 79 400). Then at the end of the day, the guy that bought in to all the hype and performed a conversion, but it doesn't yield the results he was hoping for, is now forced to self-justify and perpetuate myths.

 

[77FordTruckMan]

No...you need the FE patterned bell housing

So I guess I need to decide whether I want another c6 or a 4 speed. I'm leaning towards the 4 speed, and I know where there is one in a junkyard hooked up to a very rusty 390.

 

[BuzzGun79]

Ben quoted "Ehhh...400 would be easier and less of a pig as the 390. Comparable 460's of the same era aren't the glitz and glam everyone wants to make them"

That my friend,can be debated,Through my own experiences of owning 400's,our customers of the Era,along with the ol man who bought 2 new vehicles with 400's.complaints were..poor fuel economy,Low oil pressure,oil light flickering at operating temperature at idle in gear,poor performance in stock form.Other than poor fuel economy of the 390 or 70's 460 versions they were quite responsive and very reliable in stock form.My Ltd II The ol Man's 77 LTD Wagon for instance since i know how we kept up with them in maintenance..low oil pressure issues at idle at 20k in his wagon 7-10 mpg's,poor acceleration overall and we drove the car's with respect,along with using quality proven products as well.Ford never could get the wagon straight as far as the low oil pressure issue and fuel mileage/perfomance.I will say the 400 is comparable in fuel mileage to the others from my own experiences.and for the record on the road i see 12 mpg's with my 460 in a lifted vehicle with considerable drag.How ever the induction of the engine is not a factory setup.Now I dont mean to sound rude or arrogant on the topic Ben..but speaking through My own experiences,personal and the private service industry.

 

[Workin' Rig]

My 400 holds good oil pressure

I like the 400, the 460 isnt all bad (i just think for the extra cubes it should have more power then it does when compared to the 400).

Me personally, id take a 300 I6 over any of them, but thats just my opinion.

Both of my 400s have treated me very well so far, my 460 i had in my 89 treated me well to, the ONLY Ford engine ive ever had that didnt treat me well was a 4.6L in a Crown Vic (had a low speed miss no one could figure out) and a 5.4L (burned more oil then gas at 150K).

 

[LEB Ben]

Now I dont mean to sound rude or arrogant on the topic Ben..but speaking through My own experiences,personal and the private service industry.

No worries man...I'm speaking from the some spot...my own experiences. Most folks don't do that, and simply spew myths they've heard over the years and take them as gospel. Most folks have experience with the 30+ year old worn out engine...and any engine 30 years old will have issues.

My main point is most folks perpetuate myths and buy in to hype...when actually comparing apples to apples and the corresponding numbers, there's not much difference. To be quite honest, not much in the era got good gas milage and not many smogged up engines of the era had much power. From both the 400 and the 460, I've gotten as low as 5-6mpg's and as high 14mpg's. OF the two smogged up engines, the 30 hp separating the 2 at the flywheel...regardless of what folks want to say...they're not really going to notice. And as I said...most folks have an established bias, yours is the wagon that Ford couldn't get right...not every vehicle ever produced came off the line perfectly.

Personally...as I've said before...I don't buy in to the 390/460 hype prior to talking stroker engines because almost across the board you can yield the same results for the same money (unless you're lucky enough to get freebies) up to about 350hp/450tq.

 

[Workin' Rig]

Ive noticed though, and i dont know if its the way they powerband is or what...but most of the smogger engines ive had feel alot stronger then the numbers suggest.

 

[LEB Ben]

^^^IIRC power numbers were sand bagged in the era for insurance purposes.

 

[BuzzGun79]

Ben quoted "No worries man...I'm speaking from the some spot...my own experiences. Most folks don't do that, and simply spew myths they've heard over the years and take them as gospel. Most folks have experience with the 30+ year old worn out engine...and any engine 30 years old will have issues.

My main point is most folks perpetuate myths and buy in to hype...when actually comparing apples to apples and the corresponding numbers, there's not much difference. To be quite honest, not much in the era got good gas milage and not many smogged up engines of the era had much power. From both the 400 and the 460, I've gotten as low as 5-6mpg's and as high 14mpg's. OF the two smogged up engines, the 30 hp separating the 2 at the flywheel...regardless of what folks want to say...they're not really going to notice. And as I said...most folks have an established bias, yours is the wagon that Ford couldn't get right...not every vehicle ever produced came off the line perfectly.

Personally...as I've said before...I don't buy in to the 390/460 hype prior to talking stroker engines because almost across the board you can yield the same results for the same money (unless you're lucky enough to get freebies) up to about 350hp/450tq."

Agreed Ben, I may not speak in Hi Tech Terms as some do and i think that others may misjudge me for that.Ive always been a man who has spoken through his actions,not words so to speak this comes from old school tradition and values,which i wish there was more of today. while i was in the field back in the time period of these vehicles,I spoke so the common customer could understand & relate to what was going on with their vehicles.Any information that i share comes from those experiences in the service station field of Auto Repair..for we did it all man,and all all makes & models.heck we even took in HD service trucks as long as the cab got in the bay..lol.this is how we made a go of the business,we could not rely on gas sales alone thats for sure.I really miss the full Service,Service Station Younger folk dont realize the benefit of what could be offerd to the customers over the dealerships.Dealerships have to stay within the box of the manufacter at the time... providing we stayed within warranty limitations on a newer vehicle we would not stray from that,but after it expired lookout more options came available to correct situations ...alot different today tho.and that is sad...sorry to get off the topic,but i needed to clarify my purpose so others may understand me better.I am one of the last breeds of Mechanics,today their "Techs".

 

[Fellro]

well, I'll just rain on everyone's parade here with personal experiences...

75 F250 with a 390 taken from a 74 Glaxy, pitched a rod at idle... to it's defense though, turn out the installer didn't tighten the intake bolts, so leaked antifreeze into the oil. Powerful as all get out though, torque like crazy.

Replaced with a junkyard 390, ran good, started bad when the engine dropped from the hoist, due to the bolt not being threaded in far enough into the rusty bolt hole that was found. Broke harmonic balancer and end of crank off, so new crank right away. All seemed well, untill it started blowing oil out every place it possibly could, replaced seals to no avail. Started running badly and blowing oil smoke, took a gallon of oil to make the 15 mile one way trip, so was pouring relatively clean used motor oil through it, was so broke couldn't afford to shut it down, only wheels I had. Forced the issue when wouldn't fire, bought $25 76 Mustang with failed 4th gear to get by. Finally got to tear into it, 2 burned valves and two ruined cylinders due to wrist pins rubbing the cylinder walls. BTW, unless the heads have been updated for unleaded, FE's will wipe out valve seats as they were not set up to run unleaded. In basic, FE's can certainly be a good motor, but they sure can crap all over you as well. I have had no luck with them. Also, IMO, it was a waste to run cast iron skirts all the way down past the main caps and not tie them in.

This is more memory,as I was young and not as involved, but 79 F250, 400, couldn't keep a motor in that truck either, I remember it had 2-3 replacements, was traded in on an 84 F250 diesel in 84. Blew the bottom end on a cattle haul to Joplin once. Truck was bought used to top it off. Sure, it was a farm truck, but it was not beat that badly, except chasing cattle...

400 in the 77 I have hasn't had much road time under my ownership due to a tendency to overheat, and can't seem to keep fuel to it even with new fuel pump, cam eccentric checked out as well, and new timing chain.