Question For The Techs (Diesel Fuel Additives)

[Beachbumcook]

Question for diesel techs on diesel fuel additives....

While at my dealer speaking with my diesel tech, he stated that my use of PowerService is not good. He stated that on the Ford PTS website (just for techs) that there had been a comparison of various brands of additives (he did not state when & I did not ask).

He states that he only uses the Ford product... and when I questioned that Kerosene (not to be used according to the manual) is the main ingredient... but he stated that the Ford message was that PowerService uses alcohol and/or other chemicals that would be "abusive and hard" on the injectors?

Can you guys tell me what you know or look it up?


PowerService claims no alcohol and safe for all diesels. I called last year and they stated on the on the phone that Int'l uses PowerService and it is available through the "Blue Oval" program, but that Stanadyne gets a bunch of publicity due to being "Ford Approved"... and now Ford has their own stuff to sell.

My tech mentioned the Lucas brand of diesel additives... so I am really confused???

Bottom line... what does the Ford tech site state or can you ask... just curious if this is an old message and PowerService changed a few years back... or is there some new research/info now available?

Thanks,

 

[blacksnapon]

The only thing I have seen, is a warning about too much of a good thing. The concern was about the kerosene in the ford additive, and using more than the recommended dosage per tank. I have seen warnings about alcohol in the additives. I think that if you "read the label", You'll be ok. Bottom line, you've been using the same additive for how long with no concerns?

 

[bowtiehatr]

well kerosene is nothing more than a cetane booster. some form of alcohol is in all bottles if i am not mistaken, to help with freezing/water issues. like vince said, had you had any issues? trust me, ford does not make there own chemicals. there you go, you have a challenge. find out who makes motorcraft additves lol.

 

[Beachbumcook]

Alcohol in a diesel additive is NOT good becuase it would suspend the water droplets/moisture instead of letting the HFCM filter filter is out.

Kerosene is not listed on the PowerService lable, nor is alcohol... so I have used it since 15,000 miles through present (90,000 miles). I was just shocked to hear what my diesel tech had to state about this brand, but do not know when he read it? Not usre if old or new info on the PTS dealer tech website/forum?

I have never used the Ford product(s) due to having Kersene in them which is the first ingredient... meaning it is the greatest % chemical in the additive... and my owner's manual states to not use Kerosene, unleaded gas, alcohol and other "non-approved" additives.

Just wanted to confirm if his comment was an old or new "notice" or technician update?

Thanks,

 

[bowtiehatr]

even if alcohol is in the bottle, the water would be removed in the hfcm anyway.

 

[Beachbumcook]

even if alcohol is in the bottle, the water would be removed in the hfcm anyway.

Not necessarily... alcohol is a water dispersent and breaks up water into smaller droplets/mositure so it can pass through (as in the case of a gas motor. In a diesel, it may pass through the HFCm or any filter, but without alcohol, the water/mositure droplets remain large and are easier to collect/catch in the HFCM.

As well, alcohol is not a lubricant and diminishes the lubrication properties... but then again... so is Kerosene which is the main ingrediant in the Ford Diesel Additive products.

Thanks,

 

[MikeStoke]

So what is a good fuel additive? I havent been running anything in mine... didnt know i should. I have about 94000 on mine??

 

[Blue Goose]

Mike,
First, welcome to FTF. I've been using Power Service Diesel Kleen in my '05 since new. I've had no injector issues, no turbo issues, EGR valve issues, nothing. My 6.0 has been flawless in it's 43,500 miles. Is that because of the Power Service? I can't say but from all I read, it can't hurt.

Do you have any pictures of your truck? If so, post them up. We all would like to see it.

 

[mrfixit]

What we know as "crude oil," pumped out of the ground, is a black liquid called petroleum. This liquid contains aliphatic hydrocarbons, or hydrocarbons composed of nothing but hydrogen and carbon. The carbon atoms link together in chains of different lengths.
It turns out that hydrocarbon molecules of different lengths have different properties and behaviors. For example, a chain with just one carbon atom in it (CH4) is the lightest chain, known as methane. Methane is a gas so light that it floats like helium. As the chains get longer, they get heavier.
The first four chains -- CH4 (methane), C2H6 (ethane), C3H8 (propane) and C4H10 (butane) -- are all gases, and they boil at -161, -88, -46 and -1 degrees F, respectively (-107, -67, -43 and -18 degrees C). The chains up through C18H32 or so are all liquids at room temperature, and the chains above C19 are all solids at room temperature.
The different chain lengths have progressively higher boiling points, so they can be separated out by distillation -- crude oil is heated and the different chains are pulled out by their vaporization temperatures. This is what happens in an oil refinery.
The chains in the C5, C6 and C7 range are all very light, easily vaporized, clear liquids called naphthas. They are used as solvents -- dry cleaning fluids can be made from these liquids, as well as paint solvents and other quick-drying products.

The chains from C7H16 through C11H24 are blended together and used for gasoline. All of them vaporize at temperatures below the boiling point of water. That's why if you spill gasoline on the ground it evaporates very quickly.

Next is kerosene, in the C12 to C15 range, followed by diesel fuel and heavier fuel oils (like heating oil for houses).
Next come the lubricating oils. These oils no longer vaporize in any way at normal temperatures. For example, engine oil can run all day at 250 degrees F (121 degrees C) without vaporizing at all. Oils go from very light (like 3-in-1 oil) through various thicknesses of motor oil through very thick gear
Chains above the C oils and then semi-solid greases. Vasoline falls in there as well. 20 range form solids, starting with paraffin wax, then tar and finally asphaltic bitumen, which used to make asphalt roads.
All of these different substances come from crude oil. The only difference is the length of the carbon chains!

Kerosene is basically lighter than Diesel, but VERY CLOSE.

Even if powerservice HAS kerosene, that kerosene is not going to hurt your injectors any more than the diesel going through it.

Again, as stated by the above, all of these items are petroleum distillates, and compatible overall.

Alcohol, as far as I have seen, is not part of any diesel treat I have seen. take Howe's, for example. That clear bottle that it comes in would be mighty cloudy do to the water-based nature of alcohol. Good for disolving varnish in gasoline components, yes. Diesel typically does not suffer these consequences, and usually have functions and certain apparatus to deal with moisture long before it reaches the injectors.

 

[blacksnapon]

The only issue I've seen with kerosene, is generally reserved for the 6.0. The 6.0 in its lifetime has been notoriously sensitive to fuel quality. An "overdose" of kerosene will tend to thin out the fuel to the point of internal damage. As long as you use only the right "dose" of an additive containing kerosene, you should be fine.

 

[surewhynot]

Great posts guys!

 

[blackhat620]

Great post Tom.
I would rep you but it won't let me.

 

[Beachbumcook]

Wow... and old post of mine lives on...

Been using PowerService in every tank and use it at the double dose rate.

Have 127,600 miles on my '03 Excursion 6.0LPSD and all is well.

My only issue I have is that after the last re-flash last year and PCM/Tranny re-flashes is that my mileage dropped!!!

I get 14 - 15mpg in the city and 16-17mpg on the highway (18mpg is a tail wind and cruise right at 70mph).

Never a fuel related problem and I change my fuel filters every 15,000 miles with OEM/Racor filters!!!

 

[Kep4]

I've been reading about 6.0 owners using 2-stroke motorcycle additive. Is that crazy or could it possibly make sense?

FWIW I usually use Diesel Kleen gray bottle. Stanadyne once in a while.

 

[blacksnapon]

I've been reading about 6.0 owners using 2-stroke motorcycle additive. Is that crazy or could it possibly make sense?

FWIW I usually use Diesel Kleen gray bottle. Stanadyne once in a while.

I think they're looking for the possible lubricity with the 2 stroke additive. Its cheaper, and more effective just to keep your oil changed. The only additive that makes sense in a 6.0 is one that increases cetane in the fuel, the 2 stroke additive wont do that.

 

[Beachbumcook]

I've been reading about 6.0 owners using 2-stroke motorcycle additive. Is that crazy or could it possibly make sense?

FWIW I usually use Diesel Kleen gray bottle. Stanadyne once in a while.

Old wise tale and maybe worked 20 years ago... people also added ATF fluid to their fuel.

Intoday's modern electronic controlled motors, just use good clean fuel with "diesel rated additives" and change your filters on time with Racor/Motorcraft filters.

The 2-stroke oil will clog filters and create extra soot and wear in your injector systems. The injectors in the PSD are highly tuned and easily damaged by anything not found in clean diesel fuel or brand name additives.

Just look at any 2-stoke motor and look at the plugs.... see all that carbon build up... and this is on a "hot" spark plug!!! Now think about that "build-up" inside your fuel tank, filters, injectors, EGR valve due to "sooty" exhaust gasses and you will quickly see why adding 2-stoke oil to ones diesel fuel tank is not a wise choice!!!