Opinion

[6L PWR]

Here's my thing. If I'm stuck between Ft Stockton and Ozona Tx, and I can't put a new belt on my truck because I have to remove the cab to do it, or an emergency water pump change, or something like that.........It WILL piss me off. PROFOUNDLY and RAPIDLY.

I'm going to be driving my 06 for QUITE some time, for that reason.

Have ya' tried replacing the belt on that 6.0L yet? Wait until you try! OMFG!! What a PITA!!

 

[Brian_B]

Ryan: That is what several of us have been saying. Ford is putting themselves out of business. The home mechanic (or even small shop) can no longer work on their vehicles (maybe not totally right now,but it will be soon).

That is why so many foreign vehicles are being sold. Easy to work on, if you have to work on them at all. Reliability of the later ones is a whole nother "opinion".

This is an 08 and he is already having to pull the cab to work on it. That should say something right there.

 

[polarbear]

Haven't looked under the hood of a Tundra or a Dodge Ram, I take it? Pulling the cab's a bit extreme, but none of the new trucks are very home-mechanic friendly.

 

[bowtiehatr]

Ryan: That is what several of us have been saying. Ford is putting themselves out of business. The home mechanic (or even small shop) can no longer work on their vehicles (maybe not totally right now,but it will be soon).

just because ford tries, does not mean they will be sucessful. there are alot of back yard shops pulling cabs on 6.0s and those werent even meant to be pulled. the engines can be serviced without the cabs being pulled, ford just recommends doing so because of ease or repairs. personally i like the idea, and i am anxious to pull a cab.

 

[Skandocious]

Now that you mention it Ernie, the points made earlier about the new foreign jobs being more serviceable than Ford new trucks are FALSE in my experience. My mom's 2000 Lexus GS300 is impossible to work on and that one is 7 years old, I'd hate to see what the new ones look like...

 

[CaFordDude]

Well I am NOT a backyard or any other type yard mechanic. I am all for Ford or Chevy or whoever making it easier for my dealership to get my vehicle in and out in the fastest time possible.

I do not think the cab pull option and the complexity of the engine are directly related. I think the cab pull idea was/is a brillant idea by Ford. Lets face it The things you could do to Brian's truck could not be done to a 76 or an 86 or a 96 and certainly not a 2006 model year truck and those things have nothing at all to do with wether or not you can pull the cab off the truck. I think Ford saw an issue and kudos to them for coming up with a solution.

And for what it's worth I think the home mechanic was on the way to being put out of business years ago.

My brother-in-law owns an independent repair shop here in SOCAL. He has enuf ASE certifications on his wall to wallpaper a small house. He is a top notch mechanic and even he says that jobs that 10 years ago took a 1/2 hour now take 1 hour and as the job is more complicated the time required seems to exponentially increase. I do not know if he has the capability to pull a cab off or not but I bet if it cut his work time per job down he would make it happen. I mean his shop has 4 bays so space is a premium to him.

my .02

 

[john112deere]

The flip side to the home-servicability difficulties on modern vehicles, that's all too easy to forget, is how much more freakin' reliable they are.

My buddy has a Model A- there's not much we can't do to it by the side of the road with a screwdriver, couple wrenches, and a hammer. But, you NEED to be able to, because the thing breaks a lot.

There's not so much I can do to my Ranger with those same tools, but it's still never made anybody walk (except once, but that wasn't it's fault).

*And Brian, if you're upset about not being able to check the TRANNY fluid in a Ford, new BMWs do not even have a dipstick for the CRANKCASE oil (per Car and Driver- I've never been under the hood of a BMW). There's an idiot light, and if it goes on, you take your car in to the dealer and they check it for you.

 

[Brian_B]

Now that you mention it Ernie, the points made earlier about the new foreign jobs being more serviceable than Ford new trucks are FALSE in my experience. My mom's 2000 Lexus GS300 is impossible to work on and that one is 7 years old, I'd hate to see what the new ones look like...

I said (and stand by it) that the hondas are easy to work on. Dads 94 civic is simple to get to everything. So far I have not had to do much to it though. Super reliable. Dad thought the fuel pump was going out. I pulled the rear seat bottom and there it is (in tank).

Mom has an 04 minivan. As of yet, I have only changed the oil in it, but again...everything looks easy to reach.

Ford is engineering themselves out of business as far as cars, small trucks, and mini-vans go. I do not know what the big truck sales are doing. I do know that the tundra (never been near one) is selling well. I see tons of them around here and we are pretty rural.

Its not just ford. GM and chrysler's sales are not doing well either.

*And Brian, if you're upset about not being able to check the TRANNY fluid in a Ford, new BMWs do not even have a dipstick for the CRANKCASE oil (per Car and Driver- I've never been under the hood of a BMW). There's an idiot light, and if it goes on, you take your car in to the dealer and they check it for you.

Um...does not surprise me. A friend of mine bought a BMW several years ago. In the first 6 months that he owned it, the dealer had it more than he did. He kept a list on the calendar. He sold it at 6 months old.

Its not like I would buy a lexus or a BMW anyway. LOL

 

[blacksnapon]

Vince, I'm thinking of it from a standpoint of 10 years from now, when I will be a likely owner of said truck. It's a bad deal to need to pull a cab to do any heavy service because it's no longer under warrenty. I'll be paying a mechanic for an extra "x" number of hours of work to pull the cab.

Chris, your argument sure sounds pretty, but I'm with Gunner. Remember, we don't have to agree it's a good idea. From a DIY standpoint that doesn't have tons of heavy duty equipment in his garage, it's a bad bad move to jam all that stuff under the hood with virtually no room to manuever. If there's a system for a tech at a dealer that's quick and easy, it's nice for that tech. I think you may be changing your mind if you ever get yourself one of these that're so packed in you can't do much yourself.

Ryan

Like I said before, the 6.4 is easier to work on WITHOUT cab removal. The 6.0 was, and still is difficult to work on. Its easier to do valve cover work (injectors, lines) on the 6.4, Its easier to change a belt on a 6.4 (neither is a lot of fun), front of the engine work is easier on a 6.4. All without cab removal. If everyone is against a vehicle because its hard to work on, why buy a 6.0? Why buy an explorer, when you have a 56 at home? With the new technology thats out there, if you break down on the road, what can you do anyway? If you have a water pump go bad, or a belt, its easier than a 6.0.

 

[blacksnapon]

Brian, what makes you think the tundras are reliable? They just went through a monster recall of their own for engine failures. Why didnt they tow their own display to that truck show with a tundra (see polarbears post)? The answer is, they aren't made for heavy duty work. And the 94 hondas are easy to work on (how about the heavy duty Hondas today? OH they dont make any!) Compare the ease of an 07 honda and an 07 ford/dodge/chevy, not a 94 against the new 07s.Oh, how much did that fuel pump cost?

 

[Skandocious]

I said (and stand by it) that the hondas are easy to work on. Dads 94 civic is simple to get to everything.

And my 95 Ford is super easy to work on. Just TORE THROUGH your argument, how does it feel?!

 

[Brian_B]

....Why buy an explorer, when you have a 56 at home? ......

Since that is directed to me...

I owned the explorer for a long time before I bought the 56. I did a lot of research before I bought it (I drove my 89 ranger for 16 years), but I didn't know about some of the stupid issues that can occur. I assumed it would be similar to my old ranger. Boy was I wrong.

If the 56 was in daily driver shape...the explorer would be gone. Yes...it is relatively reliable now...but it has 95,000 miles. It will not be reliable for that many more years.

I would have to buy an old 4X4 (beater) to drive to work and dialysis (have to be there no matter what the weather) in bad weather.

No way would I buy an 02+ explorer. I found out better when I was doing the research. I see no reason I would ever need a diesel truck of any sort. No matter what engine size. I do not tow or haul enough to make it worth driving all the time.


Does that answer your question?

 

[Brian_B]

Brian, what makes you think the tundras are reliable? They just went through a monster recall of their own for engine failures. Why didnt they tow their own display to that truck show with a tundra (see polarbears post)? The answer is, they aren't made for heavy duty work. And the 94 hondas are easy to work on (how about the heavy duty Hondas today? OH they dont make any!) Compare the ease of an 07 honda and an 07 ford/dodge/chevy, not a 94 against the new 07s.Oh, how much did that fuel pump cost?

I did not say anything about heavy duty. The civic is not. A minivan is not. I never said the tundra was a good vehicle. I said they must be popular, since they are apparently selling well.

Honda does not even make a truck.

It did not need a fuel pump. If you read the post, I said dad thought it was bad. All the mechanical issues it has ever had was the inertia switch. That is in how many years? This is a 94 that he bought in around 98 or 99.

I did not post in this thread to start an argument. You asked for our opinions. Personally, I think ford is screwing up big time. I am not alone or ford would be the top selling vehicle manufacturer out there.

Remember, this is an 08 that you have already had to pull the cab off of.

 

[Skandocious]

Honda does not even make a truck.

Yes they do, it's called a Ridgeline.

And by the way, here's a screen capture of the 2007 Honda Civic Si DOHC VTEC engine:

I'd like to see you tear into that

 

[Gunner]

Like I said before, the 6.4 is easier to work on WITHOUT cab removal. The 6.0 was, and still is difficult to work on. Its easier to do valve cover work (injectors, lines) on the 6.4, Its easier to change a belt on a 6.4 (neither is a lot of fun), front of the engine work is easier on a 6.4. All without cab removal. If everyone is against a vehicle because its hard to work on, why buy a 6.0? Why buy an explorer, when you have a 56 at home? With the new technology thats out there, if you break down on the road, what can you do anyway? If you have a water pump go bad, or a belt, its easier than a 6.0.

In all fairness, I've seen under the hood of an 08 while I was getting my 06 serviced, and that very well be so. Honestly I don't know because I've never laid a wrench on either one of them. But you got to understand, I work all the way from Jal, New Mexico, to Big Piney, Wyoming, to El Paso, Arkansas (yeah it exists) and points in between, pulling a trailer. My iron isn't just a town machine. It works in the boonies. WAY out in the boonies. So if she's going to lay down, it's going to be in a place that, quite probably, I'm going to be working on that truck with whatever I have on hand and a flashlight. Therefore, when somebody says that in order to work on X vehicle, the easiest way to do it is pull the cab.........Well I think you can see how troubleing that is.

Now you just said that front engine access is a LOT better, and easier. THAT goes a LONG way to easing my worries about this particular truck. As I said before, it wouldn't put me OFF buying an 08, but it's definately not a selling point, and I'd have to look LONG and hard, and talk to folks like you, Vince, before I'd sign on the bottom line for a new 08 Ford 250.

Gunner

 

[blacksnapon]

My point is, technology is changing, people not willing to change with it will be left behind, and forced to retire. When I started in this business, there was point type ignition, Oh the stink that was raised when everyone went to electronic ignition "It'll never last, its too difficult to work on". Many of those guys are gone. That technology is ancient news today. Fuel injection came in "Why cant they leave well enough alone? 60 psi fuel pressure? Thats insane!". Computer technology came in "You've got to buy all kinds of analyzers to work on this stuff!". Now, technology has made changes that help make your job easier. The aftermarket is howling, backyard techs are howling, I think rather than remaining in the past, move ahead and make adjustments.

 

[O'Rattlecan]

puts mod hat on...

Let's not get personal guys. There's a lot of good information in this thread to learn from. No need to try and make clear who's 'winning' and who's not. let the points you make and the reader be the judge.

Ryan

 

[Brian_B]

The ridgeline is not a truck. It is a civic with a tall body. Are they still making them? They sold...a few, but I have never seen one on the road.

Yes it is true that technology is changing. I work with computers every day. After 3 years...they have to be replaced because they will not run the new software. Does that make them better and more reliable? Have you messed with vista (or any windows OS)?

GM started changing them every year (had to sell new ones) that started the mess.

Nothing will halt so called progress, but really...what has the vehicle progress produced? Will any....ANY of the modern vehicles be around and running in 100 years? 75 years? 50 years? Will any of them be worth restoring and investing that much money in? I don't see any, but maybe.....

I am not talking about how tough a vehicle is (like Gunner), but how relaible it is in the long term and how easy it is to repair when it does break.

I am not the "norm". I do not buy another vehicle every 3 years. I drive one until it is in horrible shape. The last vehicle I had, was driven by me for 16 years and my brother has it now. The only reason he has it is that he needed wheels really bad.

 

[Gunner]

Vince, nobody has anything against technology. If we did, we wouldn't be here on the board . But when it's implemented in such a way that it looks like nobdy can access that technology, people are going to get angry. In this case, to me, it looks like this is a desperate attempt to keep the customer from wrenching on his own iron. Not that I do all that much wrenching on my own vehicles (I AM basicly lazy ). But when I get in a bind, and I HAVE to do it, and I'm faced with something that shoehorneded so tight into a vehicle that I'm probably screwed before I start, well, I ask you, why is it in my best interest to buy a vehicle like that?

As I said before, I work in some strange and wonderful places. And I've been stranded in them, and usually the weather is closing when that happens.

See what I'm saying man? Nobody is against technology here. They're just against it being implemented in such a way that it has a big "Keep Out" sign on it.

What you've said above has gone a long way to aleve my fears about buying an 08. Not completely, but a long way (the main reason I still have some concerns is that I haven't done enough research, as I'm not in the market right now).

But I think you can see where I'm coming from, too

Gunner

 

[Gunner]

puts mod hat on...

No need to try and make clear who's 'winning' and who's not. let the points you make and the reader be the judge.

Ryan

Hey man.

This ain't about winning or losing, or slamming anybody. For my part, just stating my case, thats all. To me, this is just a freindly discussion..........

Gunner