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New rear main (crank) seal in 77' 460

dakonthemountain

California Chapter member
Ok, so I have the shop manual, though not with me. It really seems pretty straight forward (2 piece seal) and not that difficult, but I've decided I don't want to mess with doing the seal myself so I've called a local mechanic. They quoted me 8 hours!!! How can this be? I don't recall anything very complicated. From memory of reading the shop manual, other than dropping the oil pan/pump, undoing the bolts, dropping the crank a little under 3/8" inch, popping the old out, the new in and closing it all up what more could there be? Am I missing or forgetting something here? Help! My back is a bit torn up and I can't do this myself this time (I think that steering gearbox replacement did me in! )

Thanks guys!
Dak
 

LEB Ben

Arrogant A-hole At-Large
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They're probably going to pull and split the engine and trans...then install the seal, then reinstall engine and trans as a unit.
 

BuzzGun79

Nov.TOTM 2012 / 2012 TOTY
2,388
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Dak, where is the sump on your oil pan? front or rear? makes a big difference if its a rear sump. its more labor.more than likely engine will have to be pulled from trans. a good mechanic should be able to remove the old seal without droping the crank.ive done quite a few back in the day.
 

dakonthemountain

California Chapter member
Thanks for the reply BuzzGun79, In truth I don't know, but again, the manual states nothing about pulling the engine from the tranny. I would think that would be a huge item to leave out of the instructions. I just can't believe that a Ford Factory mechanics manual would not tell you that if it's the case. It's also a split seal, which, to me, also points to not having to do that, but then I don't know.

Can I tell if the sump is on the front or back by looking at the pan? I'm not at the house where the truck is until tomorrow but I can look! Thanks again!
Dak
 

BuzzGun79

Nov.TOTM 2012 / 2012 TOTY
2,388
55
dak, look under the truck the deep part of the pan is the sump a front sump is located at the front of the engine,rear sump is at the rear in front of your transmission bell housing.the mechanics dont want to give away their secrets & yes it can be done in 3-4 hours. sometimes you can get the rears sump pans out by undoing the motor mounts drop the y pipe unbolt the fan shroud & raise the engine as high as it will go. unbolt the pan the pan & drop it as far as you can in some cases you may have to reach up in there & remove the oil pump & pickup assembly to get the pan out.but it can be done. i just gave you the trick of the trade..lol Bob
 

fatherdoug

Tonto Papadapolous
If your truck is 2WD, which it is, and if it is still the original engine, or another 2WD engine, then he will have a front sump pan. The rear sump pans were installed on 4WD vehicles,(ASSUMING that nothing has been changed).
 

BKW

Ford Parts Guru
The lower rear main seal install is a snap, the upper ain't.

Back in the day, Snap-On offered a tool that would allow the upper half of the rear main seal to be installed without dropping anything, except the oil pan.

There was a Ford shop tool like this also.

429/460: Ford offered two types of rear main seals: Split lip type (C9AZ-6701-A) or rope-a-dope type (C9OZ-6701-A). The rope type was used in myriad different engines including I-6's.
 
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Fellro

Moderator
Staff member
The shell seals aren't too bad, it's the rope seals that are a real B***h and require the special tools. It should be a half shell, which can be knocked out carefully using a screw driver.
 

LEB Ben

Arrogant A-hole At-Large
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If your truck is 2WD, which it is, and if it is still the original engine, or another 2WD engine, then he will have a front sump pan. The rear sump pans were installed on 4WD vehicles,(ASSUMING that nothing has been changed).

Even in the 4wd vehicles, as long as you hold your tongue just right and wiggle your ears just so...I've never had to lift or separate the engine to get access/remove the pan on rear sump truck of this era.
 

dakonthemountain

California Chapter member
Ben you're a nut! :)


Thanks again guys! My thoughts then are correct. I'm going to print all of this off and take my manual to the guy that quoted 8 hours and see what he says. I've got my manual with me now: Remove the oil pan and pump if required, loosen all main bearing cap bolts lowering the crankshaft slightly but not to exceed 1/32", remove rear main bearing cap, and oil seal from the cap and cylinder block. Reverse to install (I've paraphrased the details)

All let ya know what happens.

Dak
 

LEB Ben

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Ben you're a nut! :)


Thanks again guys! My thoughts then are correct. I'm going to print all of this off and take my manual to the guy that quoted 8 hours and see what he says. I've got my manual with me now: Remove the oil pan and pump if required, loosen all main bearing cap bolts lowering the crankshaft slightly but not to exceed 1/32", remove rear main bearing cap, and oil seal from the cap and cylinder block. Reverse to install (I've paraphrased the details)

All let ya know what happens.

Dak


The manual plus Randy's cut and dry explanation is how I got through my first rear main seal...and I think it took me a total 2 hours from pulling everything out to cleanup. Now I can do one on a dentside in probably 90 mins or so. So I'd imagine a professional mechanic should be able to as well.
 

BKW

Ford Parts Guru
Thanks again guys! My thoughts then are correct. I'm going to print all of this off and take my manual to the guy that quoted 8 hours and see what he says.
How many 'old rolling piles of misery' does the mechanic work on...on a regular basis?

IMO, he gave you a 'rough estimate' of 8 hours because he is unfamiliar with your old rolling pile of misery.

One cannot expect mechanics that work on dozens of newer vehicles every week to know the inner workings of 30+ year old vehicles.
 
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BuzzGun79

Nov.TOTM 2012 / 2012 TOTY
2,388
55
Dak, if you have the front sump pan which fatherDoug has indicated,it will be much easier to remove it by raising the engine as high as it will go.yes the rope seals are a pain,however there is a tool called a sneaky pete it basicaly looks lie a corkscrew on a thin metal rod & you twist the tool into the rope as far as it will go.before you start pulling on it get an assistant to hand crank the bottom engine belt pulley with a socket & ratchet {there is a center bolt holding the pulley on the harmonic balancer} with the motor rotating clockwise,carefully start pulling from the drivers side of the engine.pull on the seal only while engine is being rotated or it will break off.be patient & take your time.if the seal breaks dont lose hope,loosen the crank mains & wind the tool in the passenger side of the engine as far as it will go & pull.with the crank journals being loosened the seal should come out.this proceedure has never let me down.i have over 30 years of on the job automotive experience.engines are my specialty.also i made a tool for the split type seal from a long narrow center punch,simply grind the point & make it flat & blunt,take a file to remove any burs & sharp edges.again with an assistant turning the motor over clockwise stick the tool on the passenger side of the engine seal & with sharp steady blows tap on the seal carefully.make sure you stay away from the crank journal ,you dont want to nick it.although it can be done i dont advise using a screwdriver,your just asking for trouble.good luck
 

Fellro

Moderator
Staff member
I think for the most part, we use the same method, I just use a screwdriver the way you use the punch, both have the potential for nicking the crank.
 

dakonthemountain

California Chapter member
Well I went to the mechanic today armed with these posts and my shop manual. Guess what? He will do it for 2 hours labor. As noted somewhere else (I think on the "other" site) the Alldata hours book only goes back to 1982 and that was what he was using! It really didn't take much convincing for him to backtrack... I hope to schedule for this Friday, but if not it will have to wait until after the first as I'll be out of town. I'll follow up and let ya know the results. Thanks again all!

Dak
 

LEB Ben

Arrogant A-hole At-Large
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Great news Dak...I didn't think he'd have an issue quoting a more realistic time.
 
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