New argument for efans!

[Skandocious]

Rick just found this on the web:

A F-series mechanical fan uses about 14 HP with the clutch fully locked up (on the dyno). At 33amps the electrical fan is only drawing about 400 watts, which is less than 1 HP, so it is a good trade-off if it will keep your vehicle cool under all operating conditions.

http://tinyurl.com/cudch5

Sounds pretty logical to me

 

[Bob Ayers]

What you are missing, the mechanical fan clutch only locks up when additional cooling capacity is needed, which the e-fan won't have. You still have the reduced reliability of the e-fan (and it's components). And you are making an assumption that the alternator and electric motor in the e-fan are 100% efficient, which they aren't!

So, there are more disadvantages than advantages with the e-fan.

 

[tomtoc]

6 pages is my bet for this thread

 

[surewhynot]

You still have the reduced reliability of the e-fan (and it's components)

If they are un reliable, why does the factory use them on most cars? I never have an issue with the one in my mustang.

 

[Bob Ayers]

If they are un reliable, why does the factory use them on most cars? I never have an issue with the one in my mustang.

The main use for them are vehicles with transverse engines. Due to the number of components, they are going to be LESS reliable than a mechanical fan/clutch assembly.


If you notice in my first post, I said: "reduced reliability"

 

[surewhynot]

Over the many years they have been in use, I have seen no documented proof of reliability issues.

 

[Bob Ayers]

Over the many years they have been in use, I have seen no documented proof of reliability issues.

Here ya go.........

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/aa032903g.htm


http://www.caradvice.com.au/1733/volvo-xc90-and-xc70-electric-cooling-fan-recall/


http://www.popularmechanics.com/how_to_central/automotive/1272431.html?page=2



http://edgemotorworks.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=55


....And there is this beauty:

"Fire (aux. fan problem).
A small number (3-4?) of X5s caught fire under the hood when an auxilliary fan malfunctioned due to a defect. There was a recall. Many vehicles evidently could have eventually caught fire. This problem affected many other BMW models besides X5s. According to the recall information available from the NHTSA, vehicles produced after 9/2001 should not have this problem. BMW issued more than one recall about this, however, recalling the vehicles that had already supposedly been fixed, so you never know. Here is more info:
The recall notice can be accessed at the NHTSA recalls page using NHTSA Campaign ID Number: 01V206000 or drilling down as follows: vehicle -> 2001 -> BMW -> X5 -> engine cooling system:fan."

 

[lil_dq]

6 pages is my bet for this thread

I'll bet 2 pages and its locked!

 

[CaFordDude]

I dunno about anyone else but your link did not work for me Chris.

 

[O'Rattlecan]

My computer has 6 electrical fans in it.

Ryan

 

[Bob Ayers]

My computer has 6 electrical fans in it.

Ryan

Good thing they don't have to operate in the same harsh environment as automotive, and don't have all the components an automotive e-fan has.

 

[surewhynot]

Nice links Bob, but they show BMW and Volvo problems which had service bullitens on them. And they show diagnostics. With millions of vehicles on the road running electric fans, you'd think if there was a reliability issue, a person would be able to find a lot more info than that.

I won't say that e fans are suited for every pick up, as they are not. I will say that the debate of them being un reliable is moot.

 

[Bob Ayers]

Nice links Bob, but they show BMW and Volvo problems which had service bullitens on them. And they show diagnostics. With millions of vehicles on the road running electric fans, you'd think if there was a reliability issue, a person would be able to find a lot more info than that.

I won't say that e fans are suited for every pick up, as they are not. I will say that the debate of them being un reliable is moot.

Simple probability Tony. All components have a certain failure rate, and if you have more components in a system, the probability of a failure is higher. With the mechanical fan/clutch, you have the fan, and the clutch, and one of the failure modes is the clutch bearing seizing, which causes MAX cooling, not no-cooling, which will usually happen when one of the components in an e-fan system fails.

Once again, an e-fan system is less reliable than the mechanical fan/clutch system.

I'm sure one of the Ford techs can tell us which they see the most cooling problems with, e-fans, or mechanical fan/clutches.

 

[surewhynot]

I have personally had two clutch fans come apart. One went through my radiator. A failure isn't limited strictly to max cooling.

 

[O'Rattlecan]

A fuel injection system has an immense number of components prone to failure, but we still switched over from carbs to fuel injection due to efficiency and reliability.

Ryan

 

[Bob Ayers]

I have personally had two clutch fans come apart. One went through my radiator. A failure isn't limited strictly to max cooling.

Yes, that is a failure mode too! How many RPMs were they turning when they came apart, or previously seen?

 

[Bob Ayers]

A fuel injection system has an immense number of components prone to failure, but we still switched over from carbs to fuel injection due to efficiency and reliability.

Ryan

When is the last time you rebuilt a carb? With the exception of the PCM, there are far less parts with fuel injectors.

 

[O'Rattlecan]

The PCM is what I'm talking about. How many parts are in that thing?

Ryan

 

[surewhynot]

LMAO!

The one that went through the radiator did it at idle! Shocked the crap outta me. I was stopped at a red light, and heard a loud bang them saw a bunch of steam.


My personal experience with electric fans-

I use them in all of my mud trucks, for the reason of being able to turn them off when the water gets deep. I also used one in a car hauler I had built, but it was a strange engine swap situation, where there was no other viable alternative. My mustang has a factory one.

I won't say that electric fans are suited for all applications. There are many cases where an electric fan should not even be thought of. Some applications, an electric fan is the best way to go, and with the advances in electronics, reliability isn't as much of a problem as years past.

 

[Bob Ayers]

The PCM is what I'm talking about. How many parts are in that thing?

Ryan

Lots of parts, but they are mainly semiconductors, that are way more reliable than the e-fan components (relays, wiring & connectors, electric motor).

The PCM is probably the most reliable component in vehicles today.


Check out this e-fan Poll, from R-F......pretty much says the same thing, an e-fan is less reliable than a mechanical fan/clutch:

http://www.ranger-forums.com/forum2/showthread.php?t=69440&highlight=e-fan+poll