IVE HAD IT with this clutch system and manual gearbox!!

[1985 Ford F-150]

Well if it dont hold together Ill fix it but I had em on my 390 and it ran for 5000 miles or so and no problems.

 

[Fellro]

Use and abuse also come into play. For someone running a stock setup, and not spinning the motor as fast, it may not cause trouble as much, but for race type applications, the stress is severe. That is why scatter shields are required for racing when you get fast enough. Should be required for most all though, but is unrealistic dealing with stock apps.

 

[blackhat620]

Ahhhhh...all the stuff Dad always tried teaching me when I worked in his die shop comes flooding back. Apparently, I didn't blow him off as much as he thought I did.

I hate when that happens

Here is a little bolt engineering and theroy from ARP. Caution this stuff can make your head hurt & eyes cross.

www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/Tech.html

www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechWhy.html

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

Yeah that motor aint gonna ever get over 4000 rpm.

 

[F 150Cobra]

Yeah that motor aint gonna ever get over 4000 rpm.

haha mine redlines at 6200

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

I bet mine will out pull ya though.

 

[F 150Cobra]

I bet mine will out pull ya though.

hhaha lets race !.. outpulling wont be fair.. i dont have big tyres or 4x4 or the weight that you have!

and my little 5.0

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

That trucks too low geared to race. Ill put it in 2wd and throw some little weenie tires on it.

 

[F 150Cobra]

That trucks too low geared to race. I put it in 2wd and throw some little weenie tires on it.

hahhaha ok

 

[Alvin in AZ]

"brittle" does not mean -weak-.
"brittle" is only how it -failed-.
"it broke" as opposed to "it stretched, then broke".

Glass, ice and peanut brittle are bad examples of
things that can be both strong and brittle.

Some of that stuff on ARP's website was re-written
or polished-up by a writer/salesman looks like. :/

L19 sounds like a L-series tool steel nothing more.
Almost all tool steels are arc + vacuum remelts.
H11 tool steel is mentioned but defined, wasn't
"cool" enough for the sales staff? LOL

"ARP2000" LOL

But not judging a company or it's products by their
website or sales staff, ARP really does know their
stuff looks like. At least they friggin mentioned L19
and H11 just for me! LOL

Notice they mentioned the "“temper brittle zone”
(between 500° and 700°F)"? Well, here's a graph
showing it in action...

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/graphL6.jpg

Alvin in AZ

 

[blackhat620]

Alvin,

I realize the "brittle does not mean -weak-", but if a material is to brittle for the load characteristics then it will prematurely fail by fracturing. Concrete is brittle, but extremely stong in compression, however in tension it performs very poorly. All fasteners and support members must have the proper amount of elasticity (plasticity) for there desired application. The ARP link was just a quick simple way to allow those who wanted a brief look at fastener characteristics the ability to do so, not teach a multipart course in fastener characteristics and strengths of materials.

As you know when the strength of a matierial has reached its limit, it will either "deform or fracture" depending on how malleable and/or ductile the material is. A material that has a high "fracture toughness" will generally under go "ductile fracture", where as a material that has a low "fracture toughness" will under go "brittle fracture". If someone wants to learn more about "brittle fracture" a good starting point would be to study A. A. Griffith's and G. R. Irwin's work, and Fracture Mechanics in general.

www.imechanica.org/node/449

www.springerlink.com/content/n588040426n026t6/

www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094_NoteBook/97ClassProj/anal/grealis/history.html

www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094_NoteBook/97ClassProj/exper/gordon/www/fractough.html

www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094_NoteBook/97ClassProj/exper/gordon/www/summary.html

www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094_NoteBook/97ClassProj/glossary.html#fracttough

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracture_mechanics

 

[Alvin in AZ]

Alvin,
I realize th{at} "brittle does not mean -weak-"...

Good for you Mister Hat!
This is for you...
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...ox/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/gold-star-2.jpg

Alvin in AZ

 

[F 150Cobra]

i found out that on the pressure plate im using grade 12.9 bolts

i said to the guy at the store gimme the strongest ones and these are grade 12.9

 

[Alvin in AZ]

i found out that on the pressure plate im using {class ;} 12.9 bolts
i said to the guy at the store gimme the strongest ones...

Those are strong suckers! LOL

Wanted to snip-out just the two tables in the middle of the page. :/
Anyway, check out their hardness compared to grade-8's for example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw

What thread is your 12.9's?
Are they metric or standard?

I've got examples of bolts going "both ways" they can-be Bi or something.

Alvin in AZ

 

[Alvin in AZ]

L19 sounds like a L-series tool steel nothing more.
Almost all tool steels are arc + vacuum remelts.
H11 tool steel is mentioned but {not} defined,
{H11} wasn't "cool" enough for the sales staff? LOL

"ARP2000" LOL

Not ARP2 but ARP2000. LOL

Salesmen huh?
Can't trust 'em, can't kill 'em and our industrialized
world would come to a screeching halt without 'em.

Alvin in AZ

 

[F 150Cobra]

Those are strong suckers! LOL

Wanted to snip-out just the two tables in the middle of the page. :/
Anyway, check out their hardness compared to grade-8's for example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw

What thread is your 12.9's?
Are they metric or standard?

I've got examples of bolts going "both ways" they can-be Bi or something.

Alvin in AZ

i dont know i just took the flywheel to the shop and got the bolts for it.. but they are L wrencht heads tough!! i gotta use a special adapter!... im staying with these 12.9 !! just got add loc tite and lock wash

 

[Fellro]

I believe 12.9 is a metric designation...

 

[Alvin in AZ]

...and lock wash

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/arp-250-2201_w.jpg

Please notice the washers pictured there are -not- split-ring "lock" washers! :/

I call the split-ring "lock" washers "un-lock washers".

It's cool as anything to me how ARP doesn't use them sorry suckers there.

Alvin in AZ

 

[blackhat620]

I believe 12.9 is a metric designation...

Yes you are correct, 12.9 is the International (SI) (ie metric) class designation.

What thread is your 12.9's? Are they metric or standard?I've got examples of bolts going "both ways" they can-be Bi or something. Alvin in AZ

i dont know i just took the flywheel to the shop and got the bolts for it.. but they are L wrencht heads tough!! i gotta use a special adapter!... im staying with these 12.9 !! just got add loc tite and lock wash

Alvin if they are designated class 12.9 then they are International (SI) (ie metric), and since they are metric they will be "metric coarse" thread unless they are specifically stamped "metric fine" thread. There is no North American Imperial thread (ie standard thread) available on SI bolts.

 

[blackhat620]

i found out that on the pressure plate im using grade 12.9 bolts
i said to the guy at the store gimme the strongest ones and these are grade 12.9

Jurgen,

Yes 12.9 bolts are strong, but they are designated by "Class" not "Grade". International (SI) (ie metric) specify there bolts & screws by "class", while North American SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) specify there Imperial bolts & screws in the J429 specification by "grade".

SAE J429 is for Imperial sized bolts & screws (North American) and defines them by “grade” with a range from 0 to 8 with 8 being the strongest. Higher grades do not exist within the specification.

The International Standard (SI) for metric bolts & screws is ISO 898 (SAE J1199 & ASTM F568M) are North American metric standards that are similar to SI ISO 898. ISO 898, SAE J1199 & ASTM F568M define bolts & screws by “class”, with a range from 4.6 to 12.9

SAE J429 Grade 5 = Class 8.8 ISO 898 (85, 92, 120ksi) Proof/Yield Tensile
SAE J429 Grade 8 = Class 10.9 ISO 898 (120,130,150ksi) Proof/Yield/Tensile
ASTM A574 (140, 153, 180ksi) similar to Class 12.9 ISO 898 (140,160,177ksi) Proof/Yield/Tensile
Note: There is no equivalent SAE grade to ISO 898 Class 12.9.

Caution is advised when considering the use of Class 12.9 products. The capabilities of the fastener manufacturer, as well as the anticipated service environment, should be carefully considered. Some environments may cause stress corrosion cracking of non-plated as well as electroplated products.

SAE J429 Grade 5 has the same Proof, Yield & Tensile Strength as ASTM A325, and SAE J429 Grade 8 has the same Proof, Yield & Tensile Strength as ASTM A490. However a Grade 5 is not interchangeable with an A325, nor is a Grade 8 interchangeable with an A490 fastener. The reason is the construction of the fasteners. SAE J429 fasteners have a “Standard Hex Cap Screw” configuration whereas the ASTM A325 & A490 have a “Heavy Hex Head” configuration. The “Heavy Hex Head” configuration has a wider bearing surface to distribute the load over a larger bearing surface. Also on A325 & A490 fasteners the grip length (non-threaded portion of the body) is longer than on SAE J429 fasteners. The longer grip length of the A325 & A490 result in a stronger tensile connection and a higher shear load rating. The shorter grip length (longer thread length) of SAE J429 fasteners also results in a higher incidence of deformation failure, as a direct result of the SAE J429 fasteners being more ductile. Therefore even though the Grade 5 – A325 and Grade 8 – A490 have the same Proof, Yield & Tensile Strength respectively, the SAE J429 & ASTM bolts are not interchangeable.

As i said before, going with a stonger (ie higher grade or class rating) is not always a better option, if the design characteristics of the particular fastner are not considered as well. In the case of Class 12.9 bolts, they have a low "fracture toughness" and are more susceptible to "brittle fracture", than a class 10.9, 9.9, 8.8 etc.