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Ford Raptors

LEB Ben

Arrogant A-hole At-Large
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But what if you want a nice comfortable truck with all the options and you would ALSO like to wheel it (maybe in the desert like you say)? That's what I would like... So the Raptor would be a very decent option for someone like me, in terms of cost... If only it had a higher tow rating...


As I said above, it depends on your definition of comfort. We've established your level of comfort comes wrapped with a 40k price tag, while mine is 25k. And judging from the offroad and 4x4 hobby, there's not many folks out there that go buy a brand new 50k rig to go thrash. No proof on those stats, just one of intangible pieces of info.
 

LEB Ben

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Then it wouldn't have a factory backed warranty or the amount of engineering, resources, research, testing, etc that went into making the Raptor! It might cost a little more this way, but you know for certain that it is put together right and will perform flawlessy. SVT has always been VERY good making the WHOLE package work together. I'm guessing an F150 that had the same interior setup as a raptor would be closer to 40k. Even if you take your 20k guess, take the truck to a shop, get a COMPETELY new suspension, huge travel, the bling mack daddy shocks that are on it, all of the custom body work to make the truck damn near a foot wider than a stock one, the market lights that are needed for the extra width, the wheel and tire combo, etc, etc plus labor I don't think it'd be that far off, then on top of all that you'd have a brand new truck with no warranty.


edit: didn't read all the way through, looks like skanalicious covered my points already :D




And I will reiterate once again. Nowhere did I ever say you could duplicate the Raptor. I simply said you could get a rig to perform better. No different than saying those warranted lifted rigs on the lot must be good at mudding because they're lifted with big tires and they're putting out 300+hp...but does that mean they'd outrin your Bronco in a mudpit, Paul? Not no, but hell no. I realize those rigs aren't touted as mud racers, but you get the point.


So no one has to agree with me, that's fine, but from what I saw, I'd be perfectly happy with one of those 25k trucks on the lot, and I would be very inclined to saying for 15k, it would outperform the Raptor. But if I really wanted a desert runner, I'd just go with 90's Bronco Broncospeed it up, and have it dominate the Raptor on all performance accounts...and it would be plush enough and comfortable enough for me...and I woulda saved 20k in the process.
 

Fordzilla80

Ranger Lariat
6,372
262
Narnia
How come the cost of parts replacement hasn't been factored in by anybody?The Raptor has alot of nice expensive parts on it,that aren't in common with any other vehicle.I'm pretty sure they'd be costly to replace.I recall reading somewhere that the body panels alone on that truck are a fortune themselves.It makes me wonder about the rest.Ford LOVES to take your money,so i'd like to see what it costs to replace components such as the brakes and shocks.
 
And I will reiterate once again. Nowhere did I ever say you could duplicate the Raptor. I simply said you could get a rig to perform better. No different than saying those warranted lifted rigs on the lot must be good at mudding because they're lifted with big tires and they're putting out 300+hp...but does that mean they'd outrin your Bronco in a mudpit, Paul? Not no, but hell no. I realize those rigs aren't touted as mud racers, but you get the point.


So no one has to agree with me, that's fine, but from what I saw, I'd be perfectly happy with one of those 25k trucks on the lot, and I would be very inclined to saying for 15k, it would outperform the Raptor. But if I really wanted a desert runner, I'd just go with 90's Bronco Broncospeed it up, and have it dominate the Raptor on all performance accounts...and it would be plush enough and comfortable enough for me...and I woulda saved 20k in the process.

Yeup ! smiliewhathesaid
 

LEB Ben

Arrogant A-hole At-Large
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How come the cost of parts replacement hasn't been factored in by anybody?The Raptor has alot of nice expensive parts on it,that aren't in common with any other vehicle.I'm pretty sure they'd be costly to replace.I recall reading somewhere that the body panels alone on that truck are a fortune themselves.It makes me wonder about the rest.Ford LOVES to take your money,so i'd like to see what it costs to replace components such as the brakes and shocks.



cost of ownership, another one of those intangibles that would make the Raptor even more expensive.


For the record, I'm not saying the Raptor isn't cool or isn't more capable than any other factory rig...I'm just saying I'm not buying in to the performance hype like an ignorant consumer. I know full well how much money and what it would take to make something else perform as well if not better. So that fact alone makes the 50k price tag tough pill to swallow for me.


As for the options...I'll extend this to all new rigs, as I said before, the options on the 25k XLT's were more than enough for me, so when compared to a 40-45k truck, I just don't see where that extra expense is coming from. Again, I know full well what it's like and how much it costs to go from floor mats to plush carpets, vinyl to leather upholstery, add tv's etc. For 20k extra in options, there better be a blow job feature somewhere on the driver's side of the cabin.



But maybe my perspective is a byproduct of the 'built not bought' mentality.
 
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cost of ownership, another one of those intangibles that would make the Raptor even more expensive.


For the record, I'm not saying the Raptor isn't cool or isn't more capable than any other factory rig...I'm just saying I'm not buying in to the performance hype like an ignorant consumer.



But maybe my perspective is a byproduct of the 'built not bought' mentality.


Think that sums it up nicely..
 

LEB Paul

I like Broncos
meh, you keep comparing it to a base model truck when if you took the raptor pieces out of the truck it would still probably be over 40k because of all the features standard on the raptor, you're not talking that much of a difference to step up into the raptor from a comparable non raptor is my point.
 

Skandocious

Post Whores Make Me Sick
19,076
655
California
Ben I would also like to mention the factor of time... I'm working 11-13 hours days at Apple, 5 days a week... I've got 3-4 hours of free time every night and it's barely enough to watch my favorite show and play with my iPhone... It's MUCH easier for me to drop a bit more coin on something right from the lot and not have to touch it...

This is the reason Bertha has pretty much gotten zero attention since the Summer started.
 

LEB Ben

Arrogant A-hole At-Large
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meh, you keep comparing it to a base model truck when if you took the raptor pieces out of the truck it would still probably be over 40k because of all the features standard on the raptor, you're not talking that much of a difference to step up into the raptor from a comparable non raptor is my point.

Which I understand...and I also said I had a beef with all overpriced option checked rigs. So as I said, in Chris' case, the step isn't that major, but in my case, there'd be a 25k discrpancy. And I also didn't realize an XLT supercab 4x4 was a base model.

Ben I would also like to mention the factor of time... I'm working 11-13 hours days at Apple, 5 days a week... I've got 3-4 hours of free time every night and it's barely enough to watch my favorite show and play with my iPhone... It's MUCH easier for me to drop a bit more coin on something right from the lot and not have to touch it...

This is the reason Bertha has pretty much gotten zero attention since the Summer started.

I get that too.
 
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Truckin4life

Texas Chapter Leader
A fx4 tow packadge withe an upgraded interior and tow packadge comes it dead even with the raptors start price.

Ben I fully agree with the built not bought mentality. But you simply cannot take a show room truck and get it to perform on the level of the raptor, and get it done cheaper than a raptor. If a barebones xlt is enough for you then that version of the raptor is 38k. The interior is nicer than that of an xlt.

Is it overhyped? Not really, will it be bought for the cool factor and used as a mall crawler? Yep, but ford designed it to do that as well.

Would I buy one? Not likely, as I want a diesel... if the price is right yea I would get one. Then make it my new zombie apocolypse rig... :)
 

LEB Ben

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Sorry Don...I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I've yet to see one on any lot I've been on in the last 3 months priced less than 45k. I don't or wouldn't need/want the options of a 30+k truck. And you may not be able to get the ***exact*** same interior things the Raptor has because it's Ford or SVT exclusive, but you can surely get a comparable substitute for probably 20% in the aftermarket. And if you think you can't make a truck with 20k of play money outperform a Raptor, you're plain and simple nuts.


Sure it won't be exactly the same, but do you honestly think for 5k you couldn't get an engine that outperforms the Raptor? Do you really think for 10k you couldn't get a suspension that outperforms the Raptor? Then that leaves you with 10k for reupholstery, audio/video systems and nav systems, which I doubt would cost you 10k.

Like I said, you don't have to agree with me, but it's absurd to think you can't take a 25k truck and take the money you saved, invest in parts and make and make something that would stomp a Raptor.

I'll agree, you can't get a brand new options loaded rig for 40k and build it better than a Raptor, but you surely could with a 20-25k truck.


But if you'd like proof of rigs that are entire builds for 25k, that would far outperform the Raptor with exception of the apparently necessary creature comforts, take a look at Broncospeed:


http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=52


The way I see it, if those rigs have a total of 25k invested in them and they'll outperform a raptor, surely the same could apply to a new 150.
 

Truckin4life

Texas Chapter Leader
Ben I'm taking prices direct from fords website.
Yea you can build a prerunner for 25k but will you be as comfortable as araptor and can you drive it to work everyday and not worry about anything???

Yes you can find deals but if you use all new parts its not cheap to say the least.
On the ford website the price difference in about 15k. Sure you could have a bad arse truck for that money.

Would I buy the raptor for that price? No.

But think about this, 03/04. Svt cobras go for 20k dollars all damn day.
You can get a stang gt for what 5k?
Then you have 15k to make something faster than a cobra, which is quite easy.
So why do cobra stangs sell so quickly???
 

LEB Ben

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Ben I'm taking prices direct from fords website.

And I'm taking my figures from real world pricing. As I recall, you were also the one that said you couldn't get a new 150 for 18-25k.

Yea you can build a prerunner for 25k but will you be as comfortable as araptor and can you drive it to work everyday and not worry about anything???.

Eddie Bauer Bronco seems pretty comfortable to me. And if you'll take a look at that link I posted, you'll realize most guys DD their Broncospeeds.

Yes you can find deals but if you use all new parts its not cheap to say the least..

Don't insult my intelligence Don. The figures I posted would go a helluva long way on new parts...and those parts would be superior and/or outperform the Raptor.

On the ford website the price difference in about 15k. Sure you could have a bad arse truck for that money...

Again...I use real world pricing. The figures you're using are marketing and advertising ploys. I'm going off stickers on windows, not what Ford is trying to attract you to the dealership with.

Would I buy the raptor for that price? No. ...

Finally...something we can agree on.

But think about this, 03/04. Svt cobras go for 20k dollars all damn day.
You can get a stang gt for what 5k?
Then you have 15k to make something faster than a cobra, which is quite easy.
So why do cobra stangs sell so quickly???

Some guys just have a penis complex and/or don't know how to build their own. Or maybe they have more wallet than brain. Maybe they don't have time to build their own? Maybe they think it'll be a collectible. Hell some guys think the more they spend on their vehicle the more important it is or the better it is. I'd be willing to bet 95% of the buyers out there fall in to those categories.
 
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polarbear

just growing older not up
12,878
607
Boring, Oregon
I think you guys are missing the point. I'm going to use a passenger car analogy for reference.

A new Z06 Corvette runs about $75,000, give or take. Now I'm pretty sure a new Mustang GT with the 5.0 and $45,000 in mods could outrun a Z06... at least in a straight line. Not that it would prove anything., The buyer of that Corvette shelled out the money knowing what the cars theoretical capabilities are... but very, very few owners will ever begin to explore what those capabilities are. By the same token, the Mustang will never carry the prestige or performance image the Corvette does, no matter how much was spent in mods or what the 1/4 mile slips say. Remember- no one needs a $75,000 car. It's all about image and percieved value. "Wants," in other words.

Same with a $50,000 "Off Road" pickup.
 

Truckin4life

Texas Chapter Leader
First off I am in no way trying to insult you (ben) or anybody else.
I was using the website because no matter your location its the same price...

My phone didn't wanna pull up your link I will check it out in the morning.

I don't believe the raptor is over hyped.
Yea you can build something. That will perform with it for near the same price.

But you can do that with any svt vehicle...
The thing is its, already done and it comes woth a warranty.
I would pimp a raptor for the right price. But I also believe in build it don't buy it...

Honestly ben, for a fair price I would takone, 30k sounds very fair to me...
45k, hell no, I agree that's over priced...
 

polarbear

just growing older not up
12,878
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First off I am in no way trying to insult you (ben) or anybody else.
I was using the website because no matter your location its the same price...

My phone didn't wanna pull up your link I will check it out in the morning.

I don't believe the raptor is over hyped.
Yea you can build something. That will perform with it for near the same price.

But you can do that with any svt vehicle...
The thing is its, already done and it comes woth a warranty.
I would pimp a raptor for the right price. But I also believe in build it don't buy it...

Honestly ben, for a fair price I would takone, 30k sounds very fair to me...
45k, hell no, I agree that's over priced...

I haven't priced '11's. but $30K bought you a mid-line cloth Silverado Z71 or F150 XLT back in '10. If you wanted a full load, like a King Ranch or Limited, you were well into the $40's with Ford or Chevy.

A loaded up '11 F350 diesel can easily run into the high $60's- so $45 really isn't that far out of line, IMO.
 

LEB Ben

Arrogant A-hole At-Large
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I really don't have much else to say in this thread. But to summarize:

-Do I believe the Raptor is one of the coolest rigs to roll off the showroom floor in a long time? Yes

-Do I think the Raptor is overpriced? Yes, but also feel that way about other heavily optioned vehicles.

-Do I think you could take a brand new 150, and with the money you saved (even more saved with something not brand new) make a rig that would far outperform the Raptor? Yes

-Does the added expense of different levels of cabin comfort dictate the above sentiment on a new 150? Yes

-If you built your rig, it wouldn't have the exclusive Ford and SVT parts? Correct

-Do I think more than 10% of the Raptors built are going to be used for what Ford designed them for? No, effectively relegating the truck to pavement pounder duty.

-Do I think it's stupid to pay more for a vehicle touted for a specific use, that will never get used for it's intended purposes? Yes

-Do I think the Raptor is an 'image before brains' kind of rig? Yes

-Do I think my stance comes from a 'built not bought' mentality? Yes

-Is it your money and perogative? Yes



BTW...does anyone know what a Raptor warranty actually looks like? What kinda hassels are going to arise if you actually do use the Raptor as a baja'ing rig? What if you bring the Raptor back in with a blown engine? Fried tranny? Broken springs? Demolished fender? Because you went to the dunes or desert racing? Will this be covered no questions asked? Or is Ford basically rendering the Raptor a pavement pounder until they get all their payments? At which time there probably will be no more warranty.



Beyond that...I have nothing else to say on the Raptor. Some of you agree, some don't...that's the beauty of the vehicle hobby.
 
Wow, after reading all that, I'm kinda scared to even post. I just wanted to say I saw one for the first time tuesday. Cool enough truck. Only three of them in town where I live. What do you think the collectability of the Raptor will be 20 to 30 years from now.
 

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