EGR cooler getting replaced

[Kep4]

I think the trans getting replaced is a sign! Maybe an Edge programmer?

 

[blackhat620]

I think the trans getting replaced is a sign! Maybe an Edge programmer?

Banks and a few others come to mind as well.

 

[6L PWR]

I have a spare 2004 tranny and transfer case too.

 

[Bloodhound]

Here is a link to his archives. http://www.spartandieseltech.com/60tunes/tuningarchive.php You can down load his tunes here.

 

[Kep4]

Even though studs are a viable safety net for performance "enhancements" they do not absolutely guarantee no more head/gasket failures. One reason why the manufacturers dont adopt studs is that they will have to train all techs on the proper use and installation of them. If the quality of the stud installation and use varies from one garage to another, warranty numbers will skyrocket. One thing they dont tell you is that there is no margin for error with studs (all torques and procedures HAVE to be perfect). There is a margin with bolts. The use of the test plates (303-1268-1 and 303-1268-2) will pinpoint any damage.

Thanks for the info Vince!

I just got the call and the SA said the EGR and Oil coolers bench tested fine so they called 'The Hotline' and they are now figuring it's the head gaskets. He said they're waiting for the 'Hotline' to determine if they should still replace the EGR and Oil coolers as well.

 

[blackhat620]

Thanks for the info Vince!

I just got the call and the SA said the EGR and Oil coolers bench tested fine so they called 'The Hotline' and they are now figuring it's the head gaskets. He said they're waiting for the 'Hotline' to determine if they should still replace the EGR and Oil coolers as well.

Russ,

Make sure the tech checks the heads & block surface thoroughly for warps & cracks.

 

[Kep4]

Will do, thanks for the reminder.

I was actually concerned about this after they replaced the HG's and added the ARP studs in October 2007. I didn't find out about the warping issue until a few months later. Since it overheated I'm guessing that warpage could be an issue.

I think that a friendly visit with the Tech is in store for tomorrow. I just want to ensure thay are checking everything properly so it can get buttoned up for good this time. Think I'll show up with a box of doughnuts.

Several lessons being learned by me on this one, with probably more to come.

 

[blackhat620]

Will do, thanks for the reminder.

I was actually concerned about this after they replaced the HG's and added the ARP studs in October 2007. I didn't find out about the warping issue until a few months later. Since it overheated I'm guessing that warpage could be an issue.

I think that a friendly visit with the Tech is in store for tomorrow. I just want to ensure thay are checking everything properly so it can get buttoned up for good this time. Think I'll show up with a box of doughnuts.

Several lessons being learned by me on this one, with probably more to come.

6.0 heads have been known to warp just taking them off the engine. FMC/Navistar also had a bad batch of heads that did not meet spec.

 

[blacksnapon]

6.0 heads have been known to warp just taking them off the engine. FMC/Navistar also had a bad batch of heads that did not meet spec.

Thats why I cringe every time I see someone asking if they can replace bolts with studs if they do them one at a time.

 

[blackhat620]

Thats why I cringe every time I see someone asking if they can replace bolts with studs if they do them one at a time.

No Chit! you and me both. I am not a fan of replacing bolts or studs one at a time on any engine for that matter, as there are to many ways to screw up or mis-torque something. The 6.0 is finicky enough as it is without tempting fate. It doesn't take that long to do it right IMO.

 

[Kep4]

Update: Ford Hotline has told SA to replace the EGR and Oil cooler and test it again. Even thought the bench tested units have passed the test.

I'll have an update this afternoon though the SA says it's very possible, and I agree, that it's HG's.

Guess my Thanksgiving trip is out the window, unless I can find a 3/4 ton truck with a hitch for rent.

 

[Kep4]

Update: The SA just called stating they replaced the oil cooler and all tested well. He is not sure if they replaced the EGR cooler or not since it bench tested good. He said last Friday they were authorized by the Ford Hotline to replace the EGR and the oil cooler!

While I'm happy that my PSD has been given a clean bill of health I cannot help but be concerned that the HG's have been compromised even though it's got ARP studs. The SA stated yesterday they would road test the truck and check for combustion gasses in the coolant. Are there other checks the Tech should have performed to ensure my 6.0 is truly healthy?

Would a failed oil cooler cause consistent loss of coolant and an overheat when ascending a grade towing 12K?

Could I request/beg for someone with access to run an OASIS to see what they did? ###############

 

[blackhat620]

Russ,

It is my understanding that testing the coolant for CO2 is a very good test for determining if there is a compression leak into the cooling system. Here is a link on a write up of the procedure.
www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-05-08.php

I am sure one of the techs will chime in with more complete information and ideas.

Since you are only talking to the SA, go by the dealership and see if you can speak with the tech that did the work. That way you can ask your questions directly without a middle man.

 

[Kep4]

Thanks for the info Blackhat. I'm definitely going to ask the Tech when I get there today to pick up my Super Duty. That conversation will either build or erode my confidence in the diagnosis and repair. I hope he/they did a great job!

If it all works out I'll be sure to write a nice letter to the owner about the Tech(s) work on my PSD!

 

[blacksnapon]

Could I request/beg for someone with access to run an OASIS to see what they did? [/quote]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


VIN VEH LINE MKT DERIV BODY CAB VER SERIES DRIVE TYPE PLT CD TRS CD ENG CD PROD DATE WARR DATE SELLING DEALER SELL CNT TIS WCC CPSC_6 PREF BASE SUFF CCC CD DIST(Miles)
-VIN REMOVED- T/F7 F T/BC T/BD T/E A1 T/BE T/YB 18-APR-2005 30-APR-2005 171040 USA 0 * * * * * * * 14
AWS Claim Key: 1006069 Trx Code: TDE Labor Hrs: 0
Dlr Cd-Sub Cd: 05536 - * Name: GALPIN FORD Ph: 818-7873800 St:CA Ctry Cd: USA Reg Cd: NA Repr Date:29-APR-2005 Doc #:01522001
Tech Comments: REPAIR 2 INCH SCRATCH ON THE LEFT FRONT DOOR

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-VIN REMOVED- T/F7 F T/BC T/BD T/E A1 T/BE T/YB 18-APR-2005 30-APR-2005 171040 USA 17 * * * * * * * 24967
AWS Claim Key: 6057936 Trx Code: 05E16 Labor Hrs: 0.7
Dlr Cd-Sub Cd: 08746 - * Name: GALPIN FORD Ph: *-* St:CA Ctry Cd: USA Reg Cd: NA Repr Date:12-SEP-2006 Doc #:8873591
Cust Comments: PERFORM 05E16 ENGINE CONTRO; MODULE RECALIBRATION
Tech Comments: CCD06 PERFORM RECALL 05E16B

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-VIN REMOVED- T/F7 F T/BC T/BD T/E A1 T/BE T/YB 18-APR-2005 30-APR-2005 171040 USA 17 * * * * * * * 24967
AWS Claim Key: 6057937 Trx Code: 05B32 Labor Hrs: 0.2
Dlr Cd-Sub Cd: 08746 - * Name: GALPIN FORD Ph: *-* St:CA Ctry Cd: USA Reg Cd: NA Repr Date:12-SEP-2006 Doc #:8873592
Cust Comments: PERFORM 05B32 DE GAS BOTTLE FILL LEVEL LABEL
Tech Comments: CCD06 PERFORM RECALL 05B32B

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-VIN REMOVED- T/F7 F T/BC T/BD T/E A1 T/BE T/YB 18-APR-2005 30-APR-2005 171040 USA 17 5G06 060102 * 1190 * C50 42 24967
AWS Claim Key: 6057938 Trx Code: E84 Labor Hrs: 1.1
Dlr Cd-Sub Cd: 08746 - * Name: GALPIN FORD Ph: *-* St:CA Ctry Cd: USA Reg Cd: NA Repr Date:12-SEP-2006 Doc #:8873593
Cust Comments: CUST STATES RIGHT FRONT AXLE SEAL IS COMING OUT
Tech Comments: CCD06 R R RIGHT FRONT HUB ASSEMBLY REINSTALL HUB SEAL PROTECTER RING

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-VIN REMOVED- T/F7 F T/BC T/BD T/E A1 T/BE T/YB 18-APR-2005 30-APR-2005 171040 USA 18 6Y20 000001 * MISC * A98 82 25652
AWS Claim Key: 6587715 Trx Code: P01 Labor Hrs: 0
Dlr Cd-Sub Cd: 05536 - * Name: GALPIN FORD Ph: 818-7873800 St:CA Ctry Cd: USA Reg Cd: NA Repr Date:03-OCT-2006 Doc #:8913994
Cust Comments: GOODWILL RENTAL ASSISTANCE
Tech Comments: GOODWILL RENTAL ASSISTANCE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-VIN REMOVED-T/F7 F T/BC T/BD T/E A1 T/BE T/YB 18-APR-2005 30-APR-2005 171040 USA 18 5H06 0502XX 5C3Z 1S175 GA B50 01 25652
AWS Claim Key: 6343937 Trx Code: E84 Labor Hrs: 2.2
Dlr Cd-Sub Cd: 08746 - * Name: GALPIN FORD Ph: *-* St:CA Ctry Cd: USA Reg Cd: NA Repr Date:03-OCT-2006 Doc #:8913991
Cust Comments: CUST STATES RIGHT FRONT SEAL COMES OUT OF HUB
Tech Comments: CC141 UPON INSPECTION FOUND NECCESSARY TO R & R RIGHT FRONT HUB AND AXLE AND REPLACE INNER AND OUTER SEAL TO CORRECT CONCERN.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-VIN REMOVED-T/F7 F T/BC T/BD T/E A1 T/BE T/YB 18-APR-2005 30-APR-2005 171040 USA 18 5V01 0603XX * 1102 * N27 14 25652
AWS Claim Key: 6343938 Trx Code: E84 Labor Hrs: 1.7
Dlr Cd-Sub Cd: 08746 - * Name: GALPIN FORD Ph: *-* St:CA Ctry Cd: USA Reg Cd: NA Repr Date:03-OCT-2006 Doc #:8913992
Cust Comments: CUST STATES HWNE BRAKING GETAS A CHATTER IN REAR END AREA
Tech Comments: CC141 PERFORMED BRAKE INSPECTION AND FOUND FRONT ROTORS WITH HOT SPOTS.REPLACED FRONT BRAKE PADS AND MACHINED FRONT ROTORS TO CORRECT CONCERN.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-VIN REMOVED-T/F7 F T/BC T/BD T/E A1 T/BE T/YB 18-APR-2005 30-APR-2005 171040 USA 19 7M01 150101 * 18806 * A16 42 26016
AWS Claim Key: 6466775 Trx Code: E83 Labor Hrs: 0.7
Dlr Cd-Sub Cd: 05536 - * Name: GALPIN FORD Ph: 818-7873800 St:CA Ctry Cd: USA Reg Cd: NA Repr Date:10-NOV-2006 Doc #:8980151
Cust Comments: CUST STATES THE CD PLAYER IS INOP, INSTALL SOP
Tech Comments: CC ZARB ELECTRONICS REPLACED RADIO TO CORRECT CONCERN.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-VIN REMOVED-T/F7 F T/BC T/BD T/E A1 T/BE T/YB 18-APR-2005 30-APR-2005 171040 USA 19 7M01 150102 5C3T 18C869 AH A07 42 26016
AWS Claim Key: 6681317 Trx Code: E83 Labor Hrs: 0
Dlr Cd-Sub Cd: 48915 - * Name: VISTEON AFTERMARKET - U.S. Ph: *-* St:MI Ctry Cd: USA Reg Cd: NA Repr Date:13-NOV-2006 Doc #:09210001
Tech Comments: REQUESTING DEALER'S P/A CODE 05536

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-VIN REMOVED-T/F7 F T/BC T/BD T/E A1 T/BE T/YB 18-APR-2005 30-APR-2005 171040 USA 31 1A02 030102 4C3Z 6051 EA L87 42 36843
AWS Claim Key: 9002962 Trx Code: E72 Labor Hrs: 24.7
Dlr Cd-Sub Cd: 05556 - * Name: TUTTLE-CLICK FORD LINCOLN MERCURY Ph: 949-4725200 St:CA Ctry Cd: USA Reg Cd: NA Repr Date:29-OCT-2007 Doc #:76403001
Cust Comments: CUST STATES THAT THERE IS A COOLANT LOSS CUST HAS TO ADD COOLANT WHITE SMOKE OUT THE TAILPIPE
Tech Comments: 3121 MO36855 CC42 CP6051 DIAG PER TSB 07 21 5 COOLANT DEGAS BOTTLE AND CAP PASSED PRESSURE TEST.PRESSURE TEST COOLING SYSTEM FAILED.ROAD TEST VEHICLE WHILE MONITERING ECT218 AND EOT230 AND FOUND THEM TO BE IN SPEC AND MGP AT 29 PSI.REMOVED EGR FOUND INTAKE AND EGR VALVE GUMMED UP.TESTED EGR COOLER AS OUTLINED IN TSB AND EGR COOLER FAILED.REPLACED EGR

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Kep4]

Thanks for the OASIS Vince!

OK, here's the report:

Diag found no stored codes. Diag per TSB 08-11-03. Pressure test degas bottle and cap. Both passed cap released at 15PSI.
Applied vacuum to cooling system and found vacuum went up to 5IN vacuum then dropped off. Road test while monitoring PIDS found PEAD EOT at 231 and ECT at 208. After road test found cooling bubbling out degas bottle.

Removed EGR cooler and bench test. EGR cooler held 30psi of pressure for 15 minutes. Test oil cooler using radkit and found radkit showed oil cooler had no restriction.
Contact Hotline and Hotline recommended hot tanking EGR cooler and retesting and replacing oil cooler. Hot tanked EGR cooler and retest. EGR cooler still held 30psi for 15 minutes.
Replaced oil cooler and reinstalled EGR cooler.
Monitor cooling system psi and monitor MGP. Cooling system psi at 15PSI and MGP at 25PSI. All retest passed.
On post repair road test also monitored EOT and ECT. EOT at 197 and ECT at 195. All retest passed. Prior approval code PAAAX. Flushed cooling system and changed oil and filter.

I hope that does the trick! Sure wish they had changed out the EGR cooler but that was done in Oct. 07. I'll change the coolant filter when I get home.

 

[Beachbumcook]

Thanks for the OASIS Vince!

OK, here's the report:

Diag found no stored codes. Diag per TSB 08-11-03. Pressure test degas bottle and cap. Both passed cap released at 15PSI.
Applied vacuum to cooling system and found vacuum went up to 5IN vacuum then dropped off. Road test while monitoring PIDS found PEAD EOT at 231 and ECT at 208. After road test found cooling bubbling out degas bottle.

Removed EGR cooler and bench test. EGR cooler held 30psi of pressure for 15 minutes. Test oil cooler using radkit and found radkit showed oil cooler had no restriction.
Contact Hotline and Hotline recommended hot tanking EGR cooler and retesting and replacing oil cooler. Hot tanked EGR cooler and retest. EGR cooler still held 30psi for 15 minutes.
Replaced oil cooler and reinstalled EGR cooler.
Monitor cooling system psi and monitor MGP. Cooling system psi at 15PSI and MGP at 25PSI. All retest passed.
On post repair road test also monitored EOT and ECT. EOT at 197 and ECT at 195. All retest passed. Prior approval code PAAAX. Flushed cooling system and changed oil and filter.

I hope that does the trick! Sure wish they had changed out the EGR cooler but that was done in Oct. 07. I'll change the coolant filter when I get home.

Great... but what did yo think after speaking with the diesel tech? Did he answer your questions and sound like he did a good job and knew his diesel motors? Did he offer up any "side bar" information for you to keep an eye on or any other hints to keep your baby running well?

A well written letter will do wonders the next time you need service or advise!!!!!

 

[Kep4]

The SA and Tech were both at lunch when I picked up my truck. The SA did leave a voice mail this AM stating my truck was ready and that he truly appreciated my patience and understanding about the time it took to diagnose and repair it.

I'll call tomorrow morning and ask to speak with he Technician. Hopefully he's available and I'll post the results of our conversation.

So far I've noticed that the degas bottle may have too much coolant and the oil fill cap was not screwed on all the way, past the 'clicking' point. I doubt the 6.0 Tech changed the oil/filter though. He may not have even done the coolant flush/fill.

Somebody did a good job cleaning the engine and engine compartment including the puking stain on the underside of the hood.

I just finished changing the coolant filter and FT-145 trans filter. I'm off to check the trans fluid level now.

"Trust but verify"

 

[blacksnapon]

Hopefully, they've fixed it, and your troubles are over.

 

[Kep4]

Final update:
Took a 240 mile trip north up the 15/215 and 395 including one long fairly steep grade. The traler was fully loaded to 12.5K and the truck was loaded up as well.

Not one single drop of coolant came out, no coolant loss, no EGT issues (max 1,150), and it pulled just fine though about 5 mph slower on the grade than when it was tuned.

I'm definitely leaving the SCT on the garage shelf and may end up selling the thing.

Thanks again for all the info and input guys!