Blue smoke... Rings OR Valve Seals??

[F 150Cobra]

i havent cheked the compression yet.. im gonna chek it today or tomorrow but i took a vid of it smoking.. the pass. side smokes worst than the driver side.. it was smoking before but way less.. now its getting worse and worse.. i talked to the engine builder he said the valve seals went on very tight and they where not the correct ones he gave me the correct ones to order now if thats the case

0.500 guide
11/32 stem + .010


and i found plugs 1.4.6.8 Wet.. ( oil )
before only plug 4 was wet..
ow and btw the engine did not lose power!! but still im going easy on it and not driving it anymore
http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa217/demon6696/?action=view&current=MOV02470.flv

 

[LEB Ben]

It's been my experience that bad valve seals don't smoke too terribly bad, and are usually the worst on start up. My vote would go to bad rings.

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

Sounds like rings Jurgen. What kind did ya get? Also how many miles are on the motor now, and how much oil is it usin?

 

[5.0Flareside]

yeah thats definatly blue smoke. ive never known of bad valve seals blowin blue smoke that badly likely is bad rings. and i'd be havin the engine builder redo the rings

 

[blackhat620]

It's been my experience that bad valve seals don't smoke too terribly bad, and are usually the worst on start up. My vote would go to bad rings.

Unless the valve seals are pooring a steady stream of oil in the cylinder, i vote for a ring sealing problem. You may have bad rings, improperly installed rings, improperly machined cylinder walls, improper break-in or the rings may not have fully seated yet.

Instead of a compression test, you need to perform a cylinder leak down test.

Also why would the engine builder go ahead and install the incorrect valve seals. He should have stopped and told you to get the correct parts.

 

[Truckin4life]

Yea that seems kinda fishy about the valve seals....
I agree with the leak down test...

 

[F 150Cobra]

well i guess its the valve seals i did a compression chek and they are

1. 180
2. 170
3. 180
4. 180
5. 180
6. 180
7. 180
8. 180

how i did the test is remove all plugs and put the guage in 1 piston and crank it untill it reached it max and would not go more

maybe the seals where so tight and bad they broke and now smoking heavily ?


i suspect a leak down test is when you do your compression chek and see if the pressure stays? well yes they stay there with no probs


engine has 550 miles Fresh oil is Castrol 10W30 changed last friday



NOTE:
ABOUT THE LONGBLOCK.. ITS STOCK WE NEVER MESSED WITH IT.. IT CAME FROM FORD REMAN LIKE THAT WE NEVER TOOK THE PISTONS OUT TO CHEK THE RINGS THEY LOOKED FINE WHEN WE TURNED THE ENGINE BY HAND

 

[95F350XL]

Thats wierd, how much oil does it use? Valve guide seals can be changed with the motor still in the truck, just take the valve cover off. Just use the leak down tester to hold pressure in the cylinder and take the springs off and change them seals. Thats better then takin the engine back out already. You were beating it pritty good when you went to the track. I always go real easy for the 1st 1000 miles.

Even if compression is good, the rings could still be installed wrong, but if it was a reman block and you didnt do anything with the bottom end id say thats fine.

 

[F 150Cobra]

Thats wierd, how much oil does it use? Valve guide seals can be changed with the motor still in the truck, just take the valve cover off. Just use the leak down tester to hold pressure in the cylinder and take the springs off and change them seals. Thats better then takin the engine back out already. You were beating it pritty good when you went to the track. I always go real easy for the 1st 1000 miles.

Even if compression is good, the rings could still be installed wrong, but if it was a reman block and you didnt do anything with the bottom end id say thats fine.

yupp true.. if the seals are the case the guy who did the engine for me is gonna do it for me no charge.. he is a good engine builder very respectfull on the island.. but installed the wrong seals becuase i said to go ahead.. he said it may work.. i said go ahead install them.. he said they went on but pretty tight so.. a new valve seals and i think im back on track

 

[blackhat620]

well i guess its the valve seals i did a compression chek and they are

1. 180
2. 170
3. 180
4. 180
5. 180
6. 180
7. 180
8. 180

how i did the test is remove all plugs and put the guage in 1 piston and crank it untill it reached it max and would not go more maybe the seals where so tight and bad they broke and now smoking heavily ?

i suspect a leak down test is when you do your compression chek and see if the pressure stays? well yes they stay there with no probs

A leak down test is performed with a leak down test tool that you connect to a compressed air source. It is more accurate than a compression tester and allows you to pinpoint the leak. Sorry but a good compression test does not rule out a piston/ring/cylinder problem. You need to perform a cylinder leak down test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leak-down_tester

www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0406_cylinder_leakdown_tester/index.html

"Good results from a compression test combined with the smoking leads them to a diagnosis of trashed valve guides. Seems reasonable and you approve the work. But, the engine still smokes.... On each cylinder in turn, he finds TDCC, sets up the tester, and reads the percentage of leakage. They're all good and low. Hmm. Undaunted, our hero retests each cylinder, but this time he lowers the pressure setting on the instrument, and, rotating the crankshaft a smidge each time to slide the piston down the bore a little, picks up the problem, plain as day. On the #4 cylinder, the gauge now reads 60% leakdown when the piston is partway down the bore, indicating cylinder damage, which the teardown verifies."

www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/leakdown.html

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Q6P7GU

 

[dragogt]

Thats wierd, how much oil does it use? Valve guide seals can be changed with the motor still in the truck, just take the valve cover off. Just use the leak down tester to hold pressure in the cylinder and take the springs off and change them seals. Thats better then takin the engine back out already. You were beating it pritty good when you went to the track. I always go real easy for the 1st 1000 miles.

Myth sorry.

Even if compression is good, the rings could still be installed wrong, but if it was a reman block and you didnt do anything with the bottom end id say thats fine.

http://www.fordstrokers.com/break-in/

Now onto the piston rings, the way we hone nowadays and the rings we use, rings are typically seated within minutes, after a few full heat cycles, the rings are surely seated. Take precaution to minimize washing the cylinders with gas on initial startup, if all goes well on the first start, run the engine for a few heat cycles. Feel free to do a leakdown and you will see the rings have seated almost immediately. Once you are comfortable, by all means go ahead and start banging gears. If there is a problem with the engine it will rear it's ugly head quickly. I don't follow or buy into the 1000-2000 mile break in theory, I run my engines hard right from the get-go, and my engines are no different than the one I built for you.

http://sbftech.com/index.php <- His ^ forum

 

[95F350XL]

I just like to make sure everything is good. No leaks, no sounds, no wierd stuff.

 

[F 150Cobra]

i just did a few runs t see if no strange smell of noise or anything then just drive it normal then after like 2 miles drive it like i normaly would.. a bit harder..

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

So how much does it use Jurgen?

 

[F 150Cobra]

So how much does it use Jurgen?

hard to tell.. maybe used 1/4 quart in like 2 days of heavy racing and a full day of driving today to the engine shop and stuff

 

[dragogt]

I just like to make sure everything is good. No leaks, no sounds, no wierd stuff.

No prob.

hard to tell.. maybe used 1/4 quart in like 2 days of heavy racing and a full day of driving today to the engine shop and stuff

Are you getting any cyl wash down? (fuel in oil)

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

Put 50 highway miles on it if ya can and then check it.

 

[F 150Cobra]

No prob.



Are you getting any cyl wash down? (fuel in oil)

nopes... no fuel in oil and no metal shavings in oil filter

 

[F 150Cobra]

Put 50 highway miles on it if ya can and then check it.

i really dont wanna drive it now it misses ( oil wets the plug and misses somethimes a give it a coupleof revs it cleans them and drives normal )


but i will give it a try

 

[dragogt]

Your gong to need to do the leakdown on it..