Who makes the "Longest Lasting" Truck...

[john112deere]

Well, I'm not convinced of that...but I have no first-hand experience so I'm not going to get into it.

Doesn't really matter, though...AFAIK, I can't get a Tundra (or Silverado) with a stick-shift, so I'm not interested. (Yeah, I know I can't get a V8 4x4 F-150, either, but I CAN still get a Super Duty with a 6-speed.) But that is a debate for another thread...and probably another day when I'm sober.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Well, I'm not convinced of that...but I have no first-hand experience so I'm not going to get into it.

Trust me......in a published test, the Tundra actually outpulled the 3 diesels to 60 MPH with 7400 pound trailers.

Doesn't really matter, though...AFAIK, I can't get a Tundra (or Silverado) with a stick-shift, so I'm not interested. (Yeah, I know I can't get a V8 4x4 F-150, either, but I CAN still get a Super Duty with a 6-speed.) But that is a debate for another thread...and probably another day when I'm sober.

Until I get a bigger boat/trailer(s) I've gone back to the 1/2 ton ranks for now.

Back in the day, I special ordered an '89 F-350 4X4 with 460/5speed....loved that truck!!!

When it came time to sell it private party, I couldn't give the darn thing away.

 

[john112deere]

Trust me......in a published test, the Tundra actually outpulled the 3 diesels to 60 MPH with 7400 pound trailers.

In the words of my Engineering Statistics professor (who was, admittedly, probably stoned out of his gourd at the time):

"...that library over there? It's full of published papers that are all bullsh*t!" Just because somebody printed it, doesn't mean I believe it...

Acceleration and braking are important components of towing, to be sure, but, in my experience, there's a qualitative component to it, too...and until I've driven it, I won't be convinced one way or the other.

(You and Ernie each bring a truck here to Maine, I'll find a heavy trailer, and we can put this to rest for once and for all.... )

*I can play the objective side of this debate for a while, but at the end of the day I'm pretty biased...and Toyota is at the wrong end of that bias. Can't defend it and won't try, but it's what I think and I don't see any reason to change.

 

[polarbear]

That's because there is no doubt that the Tundra simply out muscles the competition.......the only thing left is spring perches and interiors.

Nope- that's where we seriously disagree. Frames. Rear axles. Axle mounts (I know, how it mounts up isn't important.... ). A quick inspection underneath a Tundra and a Silverado makes it readily apparant that the Tundra is running a similiar frame/chassis design that the Silverado did- two generations ago. I often wonder how an older (90's) Silverado with the Tundra drivetrain and brakes would run out.

Then there's the bodystyle. Wait, I mentioned that already. The Tundra does have one saving grace- it's next to a Sequoia on dealer lots. Holy crap- we rolled up next to one at a stoplight the other night and wifey sez "isn't that the new big Hyundai?" "Umm, no, I'm pretty sure that's a new Sequoia." "NO- it can't be. It's.... round. Like a Hyundai!"

Holy chitt- sixty grand, and a non-car person thinks you stepped up to a new Hyundai. OMG.

 

[Raptor22]

Nope- that's where we seriously disagree. Frames. Rear axles. Axle mounts (I know, how it mounts up isn't important.... ). A quick inspection underneath a Tundra and a Silverado makes it readily apparant that the Tundra is running a similiar frame/chassis design that the Silverado did- two generations ago. I often wonder how an older (90's) Silverado with the Tundra drivetrain and brakes would run out.

Then there's the bodystyle. Wait, I mentioned that already. The Tundra does have one saving grace- it's next to a Sequoia on dealer lots. Holy crap- we rolled up next to one at a stoplight the other night and wifey sez "isn't that the new big Hyundai?" "Umm, no, I'm pretty sure that's a new Sequoia." "NO- it can't be. It's.... round. Like a Hyundai!"

Holy chitt- sixty grand, and a non-car person thinks you stepped up to a new Hyundai. OMG.

Yeah, toyota has alot of work to do in the chassis department as well. Ford is well ahead of the competition in truck technology and always has been.

 

[polarbear]

Before I sound completely anti-Toyota, they make some products I have a lot of respect for. The Corolla and the Camry. Ok, boring, but good cars. The Tacoma- overpriced, but no one does a compact pickup better... except it's not a compact anymore. The Rav4 and the Highlander- I especially like the Highlander, both for looks and design. The 4-Runner- another over-priced piece, but rock solid and legendary durability.

And someday... maybe... Toyota will bless us with the REAL Land Cruiser. You know, the one they sell in the rest of the world. With a Turbo-Diesel, a stick, and a genuine "go-anywhere" chassis. Not the leather-lined yuppie wanna-be they pawn off here.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Nope- that's where we seriously disagree. Frames..

The Tundra uses the same Boxed front, C-section architecture as the Ford and GM 3/4 tons.....except the Toyota C-channel is double walled under the cab. ......next.

Rear axles..

Give me the specs of the axles, please.......I know the specs of the rear diff. Toyota's is a 10.5" ring gear. I won't embarass the GM/Ford pundits with the size of their diffs.

A quick inspection underneath a Tundra and a Silverado makes it readily apparant that the Tundra is running a similiar frame/chassis design that the Silverado did- two generations ago..

.............or the CURRENT 3/4 ton Silverado.

And considering that Chevy was actually the last to join the boxed frame brainwashing in '07, (Ford, Nissan were 1st in '04, then Dodge followed next) does that make the previous truck frames bad???

I often wonder how an older (90's) Silverado with the Tundra drivetrain and brakes would run out..

Without the current boxed front secton and double walled center......probably not too well.

Then there's the bodystyle. Wait, I mentioned that already. The Tundra does have one saving grace- it's next to a Sequoia on dealer lots. Holy crap- we rolled up next to one at a stoplight the other night and wifey sez "isn't that the new big Hyundai?" "Umm, no, I'm pretty sure that's a new Sequoia." "NO- it can't be. It's.... round. Like a Hyundai!"

Holy chitt- sixty grand, and a non-car person thinks you stepped up to a new Hyundai. OMG.

Well, I guess that settles that......

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Yeah, toyota has alot of work to do in the chassis department as well. Ford is well ahead of the competition in truck technology and always has been.

Right;

Lowest horsepower

Worst economy

Smallish brakes.


I guess that boxed frame makes up for it all!!!

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Before I sound completely anti-Toyota, they make some products I have a lot of respect for. The Corolla and the Camry. Ok, boring, but good cars..

How is a car with 270HP that rips to 60 in the high 5 second range boring??? (Camry V6)




.

And someday... maybe... Toyota will bless us with the REAL Land Cruiser. You know, the one they sell in the rest of the world. With a Turbo-Diesel, a stick, and a genuine "go-anywhere" chassis. Not the leather-lined yuppie wanna-be they pawn off here.

Maybe like an H2??.........

 

[polarbear]

Right;

Lowest horsepower

Worst economy

Smallish brakes.


I guess that boxed frame makes up for it all!!!

Somebody thinks so.

 

[polarbear]

Right;

Lowest horsepower

sez who? 6.2L, 403 HP, 417 lb-ft of torque and a six-speed auto available in a '09 Silverado.

Worst economy

Correction- best-in-class fuel economy.

Smallish brakes.

Although they work.


I guess that boxed frame makes up for it all!!!

Let's add best in class resale while we're at it.

How is a car with 270HP that rips to 60 in the high 5 second range boring??? (Camry V6)

The same way an Impala SS with a 6 second 0-60 is boring. They're automotive dramamine. And the overwhelming majority aren't sold with the big motor (Camry's or Impala's).

Maybe like an H2??.........

At least GM is going to sell the Hummer brand and make it someone else's image problem.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Somebody thinks so.

I don't get it.......is there a Toyota rated to tow that much weight

 

[polarbear]

I don't get it.......is their a Toyota rated to tow that much weight

Ummm... no, there isn't. Which is the point. When they needed something to really pull a big-azz race trailer around, they got a .... Duramax.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Let's add best in class resale while we're at it. .

The HP/economy/brake comments were directed at Ford..

And at this time, I'll gladly give up a few MPG for nearly 100 RWHP

At least GM is going to sell the Hummer brand and make it someone else's image problem.

Quitters!!!......

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Ummm... no, there isn't. Which is the point..

A point never even debated......we're talking 1/2 tons here; aren't we??

When they needed something to really pull a big-azz race trailer around, they got a .... Duramax.

Ummmmm......and so would I (or maybe another V10, but it woud have to be an '05-'07 because my wife saw an '08 Super Duty and said.......nevermind).

The PSD would be my last choice.

 

[polarbear]

You realize this entire conversation will be pointless- and the players changed... in six months or less, right?

Ford trots out their 4.5L diesel in the 150's, with eco-boost not long thereafter. I think the latter technology will be the real winner.

Chevy trots out the first full, 2 mode hybrid pickup in a few months. 4.5L baby-duramax to follow a year later.

Dodge is introducing their first completely new pickup design in over a decade. I haven't even seen one, but initial reviews have been favorable. since GM and Daimler joint-ventured the hybrid, I'd be amazed if Dodge doesn't follow close behind.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

You realize this entire conversation will be pointless- and the players changed... in six months or less, right?

Ford trots out their 4.5L diesel in the 150's, with eco-boost not long thereafter. I think the latter technology will be the real winner.

Chevy trots out the first full, 2 mode hybrid pickup in a few months. 4.5L baby-duramax to follow a year later.

Dodge is introducing their first completely new pickup design in over a decade. I haven't even seen one, but initial reviews have been favorable. since GM and Daimler joint-ventured the hybrid, I'd be amazed if Dodge doesn't follow close behind.

Agreed.......which opens up a whole 'nother wound:

Ford's reluctancy to offer the 6.2L as an alternative to the GM 6.2/Toy 5.7.

I'm not that excited about the diesels but will give them a shot when the time comes.

I have a gentleman's bet with Adrian concerning the cost of admission for the baby diesels. I'm gessing on the high side approaching $5,000. I think he said under $3k.

 

[polarbear]

Here's an interesting thought- the 6.2 filtered down to the Silverado because demand loosened up a little further up the food chain (GMC, Cadillac). Translated, they've got excess production capacity.

Another recent trend- lower option content trucks are selling. We've sold more crank-window Silverado's this year than we have, I think, in the last 2 or 3 combined. Smaller-engine trucks are selling. The old 4.3 V6 is constrained in Silverados, and GM lowered the rebates on V6-equipped Express Cargo vans.

The consumer has gotten very price-sensitive, and fuel-mileage conscious. None of this surprises me, but I really think the big HP war between the manufacturers is over. One final oddity- a local 'Yota store sez he can't get enough 4-banger Tacomas. That's the hot seller right now.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Here's an interesting thought- the 6.2 filtered down to the Silverado because demand loosened up a little further up the food chain (GMC, Cadillac). Translated, they've got excess production capacity.

Another recent trend- lower option content trucks are selling. We've sold more crank-window Silverado's this year than we have, I think, in the last 2 or 3 combined. Smaller-engine trucks are selling. The old 4.3 V6 is constrained in Silverados, and GM lowered the rebates on V6-equipped Express Cargo vans.

The consumer has gotten very price-sensitive, and fuel-mileage conscious. None of this surprises me, but I really think the big HP war between the manufacturers is over. One final oddity- a local 'Yota store sez he can't get enough 4-banger Tacomas. That's the hot seller right now.

I just want the OPTION of being able to choose.

IMHO, a Marauder was never worth 10K more than a regular CV or GM.

A Cobra was not worth $5K more than a GT.

A lightning was not worth $15,000(?) more than a flareside 150.


Yet Ford OFFERED them to the buying public. And I, being the sucker I am, bought EVERY one of those higher performance models.......all though at not near the original price diff.

 

[polarbear]

So when does the CTS-V go in your driveway?