Who makes the "Longest Lasting" Truck...

[polarbear]

Of course you HAVE to be biased......your relatives' livelihood is counting on Ford.

But let me ask you a serious question:

What is more beneficial to the CURRENT American auto worker;

1) A Fusion/Milan/MKZ built in Mexico with 50% American content or:

2) A Camry, Honda, Nissan etc....built on U.S. soil using greater than 50% American content???

I'd actually argue the Fusion/Milan/MKZ. Here's why- by allowing the imports to bring in parts and assemble them here (which is far different from being produced here), we're hastening the demise of the American Automotive Industry as we know it. And I don't want to hear any "free market" nonsense. Just try to import and sell an American car in Japan, and you'll understand the problem.

Then again, if Ford didn't have their heads stuck up their azzes, they'd do what GM did with the Malibu, and build it in Kansas. Or Dodge, and move Ram production to Fenton, Mo.

And I don't even want to hear about those fantom Silverados built in Mexico. Here's my doorpost. 93% domestic content, per window sticker.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Ern, have to giggle at that statement.

First, check parts content........The Japanese/Ameican cars have as much if not more American content than the "American" cars. They are far more than just "assembled" here.

Secondly, being a GM guy, you of all people can not criticize the Japanese "assembly" plants considering GM and Toyota share a manufacturing plant and sell the same re-badged vehicles as their own.


Ford and Mazda also share quite a relationship. (wouldn't it have been nice if Ford reinvested here instead of buying 3X% of a JAPANESE company??)



(oh and when it's light, I'll snap a pic of the big "3" in my VIN of my Mexican Ford and Lincoln and the pretty "1" in the VIN of my American Tundra.)

 

[DOHCmarauder]

OUCH!!!!!!

http://www.car.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_id_int/1965

 

[Mr. Stroker]

I could care less where they are made at this point. I drive ford because i want to drive a ford. No one is twisting my arm to drive ford. If i want a chevy il go buy a chevy. I just wouldnt feel right supporting a foreign logo.

I use to be a new car lot porter for a ford dealership. Ive seen the stickers that have the percentage made. Alot of em are going to be below 50% made in america soon. The explorers motor and trans is made in Switzerland i think..

 

[polarbear]

The explorers motor and trans is made in Switzerland i think..

Cologne Germany- just the motor. The design dates back to the early 60's, and yes it's an in-house Ford design (Ford Germany). Ford Europe is bigger than Ford USA- we'll be seeing a number of their products here shortly. Built in the USA, I might add.

Ern, have to giggle at that statement.

First, check parts content........The Japanese/Ameican cars have as much if not more American content than the "American" cars. They are far more than just "assembled" here.

Not really. The suppliers just moved to the southern tier to go along with the assembly plants. So you're in a situation where the Japanese suppliers are assembling components to go into a domestically assembled finished product.

Secondly, being a GM guy, you of all people can not criticize the Japanese "assembly" plants considering GM and Toyota share a manufacturing plant and sell the same re-badged vehicles as their own.

For the miniscule volume the Pontiac vibe generates, it's barely worth the keystrokes. In retrospect, it was one of those "it seemed like a good idea at the time" things. Like buying Daewoo out of bankruptcy- which gave us the Aveo. Which we needed like a hole in the head.

Ford and Mazda also share quite a relationship. (wouldn't it have been nice if Ford reinvested here instead of buying 3X% of a JAPANESE company??)

Ford bought Mazda with the approval of the Japanese government becuase they were functionally bankrupt. As such, they picked 'em up for pennies on the dollar. Kind of interesting- Nissan went under, Mazda went under, Subaru went under... the only Japanese manufacturers that didn't go under were Toyota and Honda.

(oh and when it's light, I'll snap a pic of the big "3" in my VIN of my Mexican Ford and Lincoln and the pretty "1" in the VIN of my American Tundra.)

Just look at the design of the Toyota, and it tells the whole story just sitting there. No way, no how, could thaty be confused for anything other than what it is- a Japanese rendition of what they think an American pickup should look like.

The whole "made in Mexico" story is kind of interesting, as we see the domestics (and VW) explore options to move production back to the US. The dollar cratering has something to do with that.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

I could care less where they are made at this point. [it should be "could NOT care less....could care less means there's room to still care ] I drive ford because i want to drive a ford. No one is twisting my arm to drive ford. If i want a chevy il go buy a chevy. I just wouldnt feel right supporting a foreign logo.

I use to be a new car lot porter for a ford dealership. Ive seen the stickers that have the percentage made. Alot of em are going to be below 50% made in america soon. The explorers motor and trans is made in Switzerland i think..

The V6's have always been made (at least partially) in Cologne Germany.

The Mod V8's are Romeo or Windsor made (I always forget which is truck and which is car)


All manuals in Rangers are Japanese.....early ones being Mitsubishi, current ones being Mazda.

There were some FRENCH Automatics!!!


Ford had diesel motors in Escorts/Rangers/Tempos and even the Lincoln Mark VII.........anyone know who made those??? (3 different FOREIGN companies)


Mercury had a mini van that was mostly Nissan.


You may not feel "right about supporting a foreign logo" but the realization is no matter what we drive anymore, we are in some shape or form.

 

[polarbear]

The V6's have always been made (at least partially) in Cologne Germany.

The Mod V8's are Romeo or Windsor made (I always forget which is truck and which is car)


All manuals in Rangers are Japanese.....early ones being Mitsubishi, current ones being Mazda.

There were some FRENCH Automatics!!!


Ford had diesel motors in Escorts/Rangers/Tempos and even the Lincoln Mark VII.........anyone know who made those??? (3 different FOREIGN companies)


Mercury had a mini van that was mostly Nissan.


You may not feel "right about supporting a foreign logo" but the realization is no matter what we drive anymore, we are in some shape or form.

I respectfully submit that it is that logic, more than any other quality flaw ever produced in the domestic brands, that's killing the US Auto Industry.

 

[john112deere]

All manuals in Rangers are Japanese.....early ones being Mitsubishi, current ones being Mazda.

Pretty sure the DOHC 2.3 4-banger they've been putting in them since '01 or so is Mazda built, also. (Though, my '97 2.3 Lima is not, Eric. )

Ford had diesel motors in Escorts/Rangers/Tempos and even the Lincoln Mark VII.........anyone know who made those??? (3 different FOREIGN companies)

Think it was Mitsu for the Ranger and BMW for the Linc, but I'm not 100% sure...

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Ernie, spin the parts story any way you see fit......bottom line is even if the parts that count toward American content are assembled here by U.S. workers, it is more than a lot of the "domestics" are doing concerning employing U.S. autoworkers.


Whether GM teaming up with Toyota/Isuzu/Honda (remember the 1st motors in the Saturn SUV's) or buying foreign is good or bad in your opinion, the fact is they did it. How can we criticize consumers for buying foreign when our own beloved auto makers do???


As far as the design of the Tundra........dude, it was 100% researched and designed for the N.American market; of course it's trying to be "American".
It's also 100% assembled here with 75% American parts content.....using the same transmission manufacturer (Japanese based but American built Aisan)that Dodge uses!!!


I'm no RocketScientist (that's Rob's title) but it always perplexed me that Ford could spend $200,000,000 on a Mexican factory PLUS those countless U.S. employee buy outs PLUS pay unemployment to thousands more to save a few dollars in manufacturing costs per vehicle.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Pretty sure the DOHC 2.3 4-banger they've been putting in them since '01 or so is Mazda built, also. (Though, my '97 2.3 Lima is not, Eric. )

Think it was Mitsu for the Ranger and BMW for the Linc, but I'm not 100% sure...

Good job!!!!


The Rangers used both Mitsu and Mazda for the diesels.....the cars used the Mazda diesel.

 

[CaFordDude]

Many consumers want more product for less money. I mean who does not want a good deal on whatever.

I believe consumers are slowly, mostly because young consumers are taught it, forgetting the expression "you get what you pay for". This is not a phenomen only occuring in the auto industry but in every corner of the consumer market.

As far as cars go...I want a quality product that the manufacturer is going to stand behind when defects are found. wether it be the heating element in your mirror going out unexplained or your tranny failing unexplained.

As much as I believe the more for less culture is prominent I also think manufacturers are shooting themselves in the foot by not remembering what it means to give good customer service.

I mean does Vince, or any of the other techs for that matter, who has been a Ford mechanic for 20 years need some snot nose fresh out of college engineer standing over his shoulder telling him to deny a warranty claim. How little confidence do they have in their product and or employees.

All that being said I Drive a Ford for the following reasons.
1) It does make me feel good to "THINK" I am supporting an American company.
2) In my life I have owned 8 realitively trouble Fords.
3) All "Ford" issues were handeled by Ford without question
AND I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT
4) I have a relationship with my Ford dealership. I bought all my cars from there. I have met the owner several times. The Fleet manager is on my Christmas card list. I trust the employees they have working there to be straight shooters with me. If I broke it I pay. If they broke it they pay. But they know that about me. They know if they say it is my responsibility I'm gonna get out the CC and pay for it. No hassle.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

I respectfully submit that it is that logic, more than any other quality flaw ever produced in the domestic brands, that's killing the US Auto Industry.

Nearly impossible to debate that!!!!

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Many consumers want more product for less money. I mean who does not want a good deal on whatever.

I believe consumers are slowly, mostly because young consumers are taught it, forgetting the expression "you get what you pay for". This is not a phenomen only occuring in the auto industry but in every corner of the consumer market.

As far as cars go...I want a quality product that the manufacturer is going to stand behind when defects are found. wether it be the heating element in your mirror going out unexplained or your tranny failing unexplained.

As much as I believe the more for less culture is prominent I also think manufacturers are shooting themselves in the foot by not remembering what it means to give good customer service.

I mean does Vince, or any of the other techs for that matter, who has been a Ford mechanic for 20 years need some snot nose fresh out of college engineer standing over his shoulder telling him to deny a warranty claim. How little confidence do they have in their product and or employees.

All that being said I Drive a Ford for the following reasons.
1) It does make me feel good to "THINK" I am supporting an American company.
2) In my life I have owned 8 realitively trouble Fords.
3) All "Ford" issues were handeled by Ford without question
AND I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT
4) I have a relationship with my Ford dealership. I bought all my cars from there. I have met the owner several times. The Fleet manager is on my Christmas card list. I trust the employees they have working there to be straight shooters with me. If I broke it I pay. If they broke it they pay. But they know that about me. They know if they say it is my responsibility I'm gonna get out the CC and pay for it. No hassle.

Right on.......and if Ford had kept me happy, I probably would never have strayed.


What's funny is the 2nd trans went out 4 days over and 30,000 miles UNDER my Ford extended service plan. (dumas me actually noticed it dripping before the failure and before the warranty expired, but I thought it was venting due to a recent DEALER srvice)

Dealer denied any warranty and told me I had to take it up with Ford....Ford customer rep couldn't believe the amount of cars that popped up when she pulled my history and even commented that Ford should have no problem taking care of a customer like you.


Basically offered me $750 toward a $3,000 repair!!!


Got the biggest Ford dealer in the world involved (Brother in law works there) and they did get me a voucher for $2,000 toward a new car......that's why I bought the '07 Lincoln.


Even though I didn't buy this truck from Galpin Ford in So. Cal. (I have bought many others from them) they did step up for me.....just thought it a damned shame my selling dealer wouldn't lift a finger to help! Because of that, they will never see another penny from me.

 

[polarbear]

Ernie, spin the parts story any way you see fit......bottom line is even if the parts that count toward American content are assembled here by U.S. workers, it is more than a lot of the "domestics" are doing concerning employing U.S. autoworkers.

No argument there.

Whether GM teaming up with Toyota/Isuzu/Honda (remember the 1st motors in the Saturn SUV's) or buying foreign is good or bad in your opinion, the fact is they did it. How can we criticize consumers for buying foreign when our own beloved auto makers do???

Agreed as well.

As far as the design of the Tundra........dude, it was 100% researched and designed for the N.American market; of course it's trying to be "American".
It's also 100% assembled here with 75% American parts content.....using the same transmission manufacturer (Japanese based but American built Aisan)that Dodge uses!!!

Might have been researched- but the "look" is all wrong. Without a logo or a badge, it's easy to spot from three blocks away- that's not a traditional domestic pickup.


I'm no RocketScientist (that's Rob's title) but it always perplexed me that Ford could spend $200,000,000 on a Mexican factory PLUS those countless U.S. employee buy outs PLUS pay unemployment to thousands more to save a few dollars in manufacturing costs per vehicle.

They blame the unions, I think that's a simplistic view towards a complex problem. I do know that Detroit is generally on the wrong side of any new trend. Here's a trend for you- while Detroit has been figuring out what 3rd world country to assemble in, every major manufacturer abroad has built, is building, or is shopping for a US assembly site. If the US was uncompetitive, they wouldn't be doing that.

To Ford's credit, they did figure out that they new European lineup they're bringing over here has to be made here to be priced competitively.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

"Here's a trend for you- while Detroit has been figuring out what 3rd world country to assemble in, every major manufacturer abroad has built, is building, or is shopping for a US assembly site. If the US was uncompetitive, they wouldn't be doing that"



EXACTLY!!!!!!




I think I misunderstood your Tundra comments..........while it's not my favorite looking truck (The Sierra gets my vote) it's far from the worst looking to me. (The '08 Super Duty makes my acid reflux kick in every time I see one......and the '09 150 is not far behind. What's with Ford and the droopy eyed look????

Besides, listening/feeling nearly 400HP ripping through 6 speeds while sitting INSIDE the vehicle....I could even stomach the Super Duty's looks

 

[Raptor22]

I have grown to like the 08 SuperDuty as long has it has the normal (not the plastic work truck) front end. Darker paint colors also make it look better. The 09 F150 I really like because it makes the truck look squarer and more handsome, though it kind of reminds me of a Generation 8 (not bad either). I also like how the new F150 returns to having a chrome trim panel on the tailgate, a feature I have missed for a long time. I love the looks of the new GMC Sierra, but I am not sure I would buy one, especially when the half-ton Ford can tow more...

 

[DOHCmarauder]

I have grown to like the 08 SuperDuty as long has it has the normal (not the plastic work truck) front end. Darker paint colors also make it look better. The 09 F150 I really like because it makes the truck look squarer and more handsome, though it kind of reminds me of a Generation 8 (not bad either). I also like how the new F150 returns to having a chrome trim panel on the tailgate, a feature I have missed for a long time. I love the looks of the new GMC Sierra, but I am not sure I would buy one, especially when the half-ton Ford can tow more...

Color matching the Super duty grill helps a great deal......still can't get over the 'droopy" eyes.


Ford's towing/payload numbers are a lot of fluff.


The number you always hear about are a one off truck.....regular cab, long bed with 4.10's and 8200# GVW; I'm fairly certain you've never seen one or probably wouldn't buy one.

The rest of the lineup, to include super and crew cabs, there is very little difference in the numbers.

 

[polarbear]

I think I misunderstood your Tundra comments..........while it's not my favorite looking truck (The Sierra gets my vote) it's far from the worst looking to me. (The '08 Super Duty makes my acid reflux kick in every time I see one......and the '09 150 is not far behind. What's with Ford and the droopy eyed look????

Besides, listening/feeling nearly 400HP ripping through 6 speeds while sitting INSIDE the vehicle....I could even stomach the Super Duty's looks

No- I have the same issues with the looks of the Tundra as I did with the Titan when it came out. The "look" is all wrong. In the case of the Tundra, Toyota insists on the ovoid-shape that looks like it got left in the oven too long and started to melt. It works OK on a Camry, not so great on the Tundra, and really looks like crap on a new Sequoia. My opinion, mind you- styling is, after all, a matter of taste. I still think the Volvo 940 Turbo Wagon was, bar none, the best looking wagon ever made.

I've been driving a Tahoe Hybrid this week- that's an interesting truck. Like driving a 6,000 lb golfcart.

 

[Raptor22]

No- I have the same issues with the looks of the Tundra as I did with the Titan when it came out. The "look" is all wrong. In the case of the Tundra, Toyota insists on the ovoid-shape that looks like it got left in the oven too long and started to melt. It works OK on a Camry, not so great on the Tundra, and really looks like crap on a new Sequoia. My opinion, mind you- styling is, after all, a matter of taste. I still think the Volvo 940 Turbo Wagon was, bar none, the best looking wagon ever made.

I've been driving a Tahoe Hybrid this week- that's an interesting truck. Like driving a 6,000 lb golfcart.

SOT (so off topic... ): Out of curiosity, how much mileage does that give you?

 

[DOHCmarauder]

No- I have the same issues with the looks of the Tundra as I did with the Titan when it came out. The "look" is all wrong. In the case of the Tundra, Toyota insists on the ovoid-shape that looks like it got left in the oven too long and started to melt. It works OK on a Camry, not so great on the Tundra, and really looks like crap on a new Sequoia. My opinion, mind you- styling is, after all, a matter of taste. I still think the Volvo 940 Turbo Wagon was, bar none, the best looking wagon ever made.

I've been driving a Tahoe Hybrid this week- that's an interesting truck. Like driving a 6,000 lb golfcart.

Looks are always subjective. When the Chevy uses all the chrome on the bumpers at the front corners......let's just say that same vomit taste reappears (pass the Tums, please)

But like the Ford, when the bumpers are color keyed it helps a LOT.


The Tundra also uses too much chrome on the grill surround.

I want to do this treatment to mine, which IMHO (read subjective) leap frogs the looks to near Sierra beauty.