What goes around . . leaks . . back to the rear axle seals

[shortbed]

It took me days to feel comfortable enough to pull my rear axles ('78 150) and get new bearings and seals pressed on. The good news is that THIS TIME I was able to pull the driver's side axle in about five minutes. That felt good. The bad news is that I pulled it because it was LEAKING AGAIN. Frequent Forum users will recall the six pages of advise and adventure around this several weeks back and back I am.
The bearings look fine. The seal looks fine (a rubber like coated ring that is part of the bearing assambly) the inside of the axle housing looks okay, maybe a little deterioration. I'm not sure what to do.
My thoughts:
1.could I not have torqued them enough . . . I snugged them up what felt reasonable . . . or too much.
2.The manual calls for a gasket between the axle housing flange and the back of the brake backing plate. Thers isn't one there now. Could this have anything to do with it.
3. Country Boy Idea: Is there a sealing compound that I could put around the seal that might do the job
4: I used to be good at hitch hiking. Should I rethink motorized conveyance altogether.

whadayathink

 

[Alvin in AZ]

2.The manual calls for a gasket between the axle housing flange and the
back of the brake backing plate. Thers isn't one there now. <-- {oops ;}
3. Country Boy Idea: Is there a sealing compound that I could put around
the seal that might do the job
whadayathink

Right Stuff.
Dumb name, good product.
Sez right on the can:
-seals instantly (no waiting 24 hours for RTV)
-million fleet miles and -no- leaks

But I've had real good luck with "Ultra Black" in the past too tho.

Alvin in AZ

 

[shortbed]

Alvin,
Thanks for your post. Let me ask you this.
I buy "The Right Stuff," somewhere.
I'm guessing its some kind of sealant.
But I'm not sure if you are suggesting I put it on the gasket (that is outside the axle housing opening and between the axle housing flange and the brake back plate . . .
or if I put it directly onto my axle shaft seal that is, on my particular axle, which is pressed onto the axle just outboard of the bearing and not an independent seal that sits in the axle housing.
(on my truck the axle . . . coming out from the dif, there is a small bearing stop, the bearing in its race, the seal, then the axle flange which my manual says I torque between 50 and 75 pounds and bolts all of that in place)

If I put it on the gasket is it between the gasket and the axle housing or between the gasket and the brake backing plate.

If I put it on the seal itself do I put it around the outside of the seal?
Or
Do I put a bead of it into the inside of the axle housing where the seal would seat?
How much of this stuff do I use and, I'm just kinda wondering, why didn't someone suggest this the first time?




Right Stuff.
Dumb name, good product.
Sez right on the can:
-seals instantly (no waiting 24 hours for RTV)
-million fleet miles and -no- leaks

But I've had real good luck with "Ultra Black" in the past too tho.

Alvin in AZ

 

[shortbed]

Alvin,
Thanks for your post. Let me ask you this.
I buy "The Right Stuff," somewhere.
I'm guessing its some kind of sealant.
But I'm not sure if you are suggesting I put it on the gasket (that is outside the axle housing opening and between the axle housing flange and the brake back plate . . .
or if I put it directly onto my axle shaft seal that is, on my particular axle, which is pressed onto the axle just outboard of the bearing and not an independent seal that sits in the axle housing.
(on my axle . . . coming out from the dif, there is a small bearing stop of some kind, the bearing in its race, the seal, then the axle flange which my manual says I torque between 50 and 75 pounds and bolts all of that in place)

If I put it on the gasket is it between the gasket and the axle housing or between the gasket and the brake backing plate.

If I put it on the seal itself do I put it around the outside of the seal?
Or
Do I put a bead of it into the inside of the axle housing where the seal would seat?
How much of this stuff do I use and, I'm just kinda wondering, why didn't someone suggest this the first time?

whatever the answer, I appreciate you responding


Jim in nc


Right Stuff.
Dumb name, good product.
Sez right on the can:
-seals instantly (no waiting 24 hours for RTV)
-million fleet miles and -no- leaks

But I've had real good luck with "Ultra Black" in the past too tho.

Alvin in AZ

 

[FORDification]

I didn't check your other thread, but you didn't state WHERE it was leaking. Are you sure it's from the bearing area?

When a rearend is being used, the heat build-up inside creates pressure. That pressure has to escape somewhere...that's the purpose of the breather up on top of the housing. If the breather is clogged, then the pressure has to find the next available exit...which is through the axle seals. Unscrew the breather tube from the axle housing and make sure it's clean, and then blow some compressed air through the rubber tubing that should be hooked up to it, extending up to the frame.

 

[shortbed]

Thanks for responding.
I have removed the breather and very carefully cleaned it out. I then placed a clear plastic hose over it and ran the hose up and over the frame to prevent debris from getting into it. It's only been a few weeks since I cleaned it. But my question is this:
---Can I use such a product as that "Right Stuff" or some other sealant around the seal or on the inner surface of the axle housing. The oil is leaking either around the seal or through the bearings.
Do I have other options than:
---New bearings and seal pressed on
---Puttting a sealant around the seal

(Note: the seal is part of the bearing assembly and also pressed onto the axle)


Thanks again for your help

Jim



I didn't check your other thread, but you didn't state WHERE it was leaking. Are you sure it's from the bearing area?

When a rearend is being used, the heat build-up inside creates pressure. That pressure has to escape somewhere...that's the purpose of the breather up on top of the housing. If the breather is clogged, then the pressure has to find the next available exit...which is through the axle seals. Unscrew the breather tube from the axle housing and make sure it's clean, and then blow some compressed air through the rubber tubing that should be hooked up to it, extending up to the frame.

 

[Mil1ion]

I have about 100 of those paper gaskets for 9" rears in my garage
I got them in 1990 and was told "they are the last gaskets available anywhere in Canada".

How much should I change people for them ?

 

[shortbed]

Just One Question . . .

Just to be clear . . . the oil is leaking from the axle, from the end of the axle that is closest to the tire and it is leaking through or around the seal that is pressed on the axle.
My question is this:
Can I used a sealant between the seal and the axle housing?

 

[Alvin in AZ]

My question is this:
Can I used a sealant between the seal and the axle housing?

Sorry but the question doesn't make any sense to me. :/

--------------------------------

If the seal is new and wasn't damaged while reinserting the axle and it
was seated right, it ain't leaking enough to matter. That's been my
experience with seals and so IME... You just need to replace the seal?

If it's because of the missing gasket, take the part off and use one of
Mil1's gaskets or RTV or RightStuff and put it back together. Your call,
after tearing into it.

ShortBus, where you at?

Fill out your stuff too-------------------------------------------------------------------------^

Alvin in AZ

 

[shortbed]

keep smiling while you read this, I am

Okay. Let me try again. The axle is leaking oil. The oil is coming out of the axle (not the differential) and is flowing into the brake drum. It is then flowing out of the brake drum and down the inside of my tire. I assume if I drive while oil is dripping through the brake drum that oil will get onto the brake shoes. If this happens I will have to replace the brake shoes or not have effective rear brakes. I see all of this as something that needs attention.
I respect your interest in . . .what do they call it "Distant Viewing," but even though you do not 'see' it as leaking enough to matter, I can stand right in front of it and what I see, with my own eyes, suggests it does matter . . . Okay I'm saying all of this while I'm smiling. Don't get mad Alvin, just a little ribbing: man to man.
Now on my vehicle (a four wheel drive '78 F150) replacing the seal means that I have to go to the parts store and purchase a new seal and a new bearing, then I have to carry all of this with my axle to a machine shop. I have to leave it with them or wait for them to press off the old bearings and seal and press on the new bearings and seal, then bring it home, reinsert it in the axle housing and hope it does not happen again.

The gasket is between the axle housing flange and the brake backing plate (all outboard of the axle and the seals and bearings) and by the time the oil has gotten to it I have lost the oil retention game, but I asked about it because my manual says there should be one there and there is not and since I'm not a mechanic and doing all of this by the seat of my pants (whatever that means) I thought I would ask.

Yes the seal 'looks' okay. The bearings 'look' okay, Yes I replaced them two weeks ago, but I have oil coming by them and thought I'd ask what to do about it.

Alvin . . . I hope I wasn't too, uh, you know, like someone with his shirt buttoned too tight.

One way or another this old truck and I will get throught this. We've come a good way together so far and thanks for your time buddy.


Jim in North Carolina




Sorry but the question doesn't make any sense to me. :/

--------------------------------

If the seal is new and wasn't damaged while reinserting the axle and it
was seated right, it ain't leaking enough to matter. That's been my
experience with seals and so IME... You just need to replace the seal?

If it's because of the missing gasket, take the part off and use one of
Mil1's gaskets or RTV or RightStuff and put it back together. Your call,
after tearing into it.

ShortBus, where you at?

Fill out your stuff too-------------------------------------------------------------------------^

Alvin in AZ

 

[FORDification]

Yes, you can use spread a little sealant around the outside shell of the axle seal and then install it (not the rubber lip). You can also spread a little sealant around the outside of the bearing race before installation.

I recently bought a custom 9" narrowed housing with narrowed Curie axles. The assembly instructions specifically state that with the sealed-type bearings used, an axle seal wasn't even necessary or recommended, and to just spread some sealant around the bearing race before installation. No paper gasket for the axle retainer flange was used, nor is one needed IMO.

If there is any wear on the axle where the rubber part of the seal rests you'll have leaks. If so, you can either install a repair sleeve or replace the axle.

 

[shortbed]

I went by the shop that pressed the seal and bearings on my axle shaft this morning. The guy there gave me a tube of sealant: Black RTV Silicone, but he tells me NOT to put any on where the seal seats in the axle housing or inside the axle housing. He tells me to put it between the outside fiace of the seal and the inside face of the bearing retainer . . . and my parts store shows a gasket that goes between the brake backing plate and the axle housing which is inboard of the bearing retainer . . .

. . . All of this really requires one to see what is going on. Without looking at this or having worked with this very same axle/seal/bearing/axle housing/flange this and retainer that . . . its just too complicated to picture.

But I have a course of action and I'm gonna try it.

jim

 

[Mil1ion]

I usually coat the outside of the axle seal with a thin film of Copper Coat to add to the sealing quality

 

[shortbed]

On my axle the part called the 'Bearing Retainer' sits just outboard of the seal and the bearings which are both pressed on the axle itself. There is very little room between this 'Bearing Retainer' and the seal . . . maybe a quarter inch around the outside and down to almost touching in towards the shaft itself. The axles you are talking about might be different, but if not how do you get this 'thin film of Copper Coat' in there and what is Copper Coat?


I usually coat the outside of the axle seal with a thin film of Copper Coat to add to the sealing quality
__________________

 

[Alvin in AZ]

All of this really requires one to see what is going on.
jim

Yep!

And that's why you are the one that needs to fix it.

You are the one with the time to look it over and figure
out what you and/or the guy/s at the shop messed up.

The oil's not under pressure inside the axle, something
bad wrong with the seal...or something. Figure it out.

You can do it, just do it.

Alvin in AZ

 

[mm_0_mm]

I assume you are 100% sure it's gear oil and not brake fluid?

 

[shortbed]

soon to be the rear axle expert . . .

Well . . . some thoughts. I HAVE looked at how the gear and seal are sitting on the axle. I'm a carpenter, 40 years of looking at 1/16's this and thats and plum and level and I swear the thing looks off just a bit, as it it's rocked over and not sitting square, tilted. A friend looked at it and couldn't see it and said he thought well "how could it not go on there straight?"
So there is that. I could carry it back and ask the shop to look at it. I believe they are fair enough.
They suggested this RTV silicone on the outside, between the flange and the seal but I figure by then the oil has already gotten past the seal.
I'm just hating to think its not right and having to get new seals and bearings and do it all again, but . . . unless smearing that stuff inside the race (the inside of the axle housing where the seal sits would do it ? ? )
Oh and, yes sir . . . 100% absolutely certain it is not brake fluid, but thanks for asking.

and thanks for being a cheering section Alvin..

Jim

 

[Alvin in AZ]

Oh and, yes sir . . .
100% absolutely certain it is not brake fluid,
but thanks for asking.
Jim

x2 on that!
...and thanks for the answer too.

Alvin in AZ

 

[shortbed]

the ducks are almost in a row

I took the axle back to the gentleman who pulled the old bearings and installed the new ones and we talked some. He advises putting my sealant right on the seating surface of the seal and so I'm going to do that. The only thing I am now somewhat uncertain about it this gasket. A buddy picked it up for me today. Its metal and sits between the flange of the axle housing and the break backing plate and its got a lip that sits just into the axle housing.
I'm wondering if I should put some sealant between it and the axle flange and or between it and the brake backing plate.
If no one knows and gets back to me before mid day tomorrow I'll probably . . . play it by ear

 

[Alvin in AZ]

I'm wondering if I should put some sealant between it and the
axle flange and or between it and the brake backing plate.

I would.

Alvin in AZ