Starting question in general, help please.

[taxreliever]

So if a car is cranking, meaning it's sounding like it's trying to run when you turn the key, but just not turning over completely, does that generally mean the starter/solenoid is ok?

And if so, then probably a fuel situation?

 

[smokey]

It's either fuel or spark or air if the engine is spinning over.
Check to see if you car getting spark and fuel

 

[taxreliever]

It's either fuel or spark or air if the engine is spinning over.
Check to see if you car getting spark and fuel

Randy thanks for the quick reply...a buddy of mine's truck died in my yard and we're trying to diagnose to save a few bucks on towing and such and we were going to replace the starter but it didn't sound like that was the issue, so thanks for helping!

It's on E, so maybe he just got some sludge in the lines....we'll try a few things out tomorrow, maybe throw some starter fluid in the intake and see if it'll fire up.

Thanks again!

 

[taxreliever]

It's a Nissan Xterra 2002...they've been running it all day just fine. Park it in my yard to pick someone up. Went to start it and nothing ever since.

 

[BuzzGun79]

If its on "E" Ken...put some fuel in it.Might take it a bit to fire..but it should.

 

[smokey]

Add some gas and cycle the switch a few times to prime the lines. Might just be to low to pick up the fuel.

 

[Workin' Rig]

Ive had this happen before on my Expedition, espically if you are pointed up or down a hill.

Add gas, and then see if it fires after primeing it, if it dont shoot some starting fluid in intake, if it starts its a fuel issue (probely pump), if it doesnt start then you got a spark issue.

 

[Truckin4life]

Ken, here is the basics for you...

An engine needs 3 things to work..

It needs:
Air
fuel
spark.

You must have all 3 for the engine to run.

When you turn the key, the engine should turn over. If not you have an electrical issue, with the starting system, or with the starter...

If it turns and does not fire up you have to decipher which of the 3 elements its missing...
Typically if an engine is turning over with the starter, its getting air.

So that leaves an issue with spark or fuel..

Quick way to check is spray some starting fluid in the throttle body and turn it over... If it tries to start. Its got spark. so by proccess of elimination you have a fuel issue...

You can check for spark with a screw driver or by pulling the plug..
Pull the plug out, touch it to the head with the plug wire still connected and turn over the engine.. (Use insulated pliers to avoid being shocked) if you see the spark then your good to go. If you don't make sure everything is covered well and that its dark enough for you to see. Then try again... if you don't have spark then you have found your issue...

 

[taxreliever]

If its on "E" Ken...put some fuel in it.Might take it a bit to fire..but it should.

Add some gas and cycle the switch a few times to prime the lines. Might just be to low to pick up the fuel.

Thanks fellas....tried that and still nothing. So, we thought maybe the fuel pump...power still getting there was good.

Before replacing that, we decided to try to see if there was a spark and NO SPARK! So we tried turning the cam (was it the cam pulley that I'm talking about?) to see if the distributor would turn and NO TURN....took the timing belt top cover off and belt is free spinning, but all the teeth on it look fine, so we're working on getting the bottom timing cover off, which is hard cause the pulley just spins! We're trying to get it off, but wonder what could be wrong under the bottom cover...any other thoughts?

POS Nissan is still in my yard!

 

[dustybumpers]

Sounds like the timing belt cut loose. When it went, it probably bent all the valves too. You will have to do a compression test once you get the new belt back on.

 

[BuzzGun79]

Charlie qutoed "Sounds like the timing belt cut loose. When it went, it probably bent all the valves too. You will have to do a compression test once you get the new belt back on."

This is not always the case tho Ken,all depends on what rpm's the motor was turning when the belt went...I had one go in a 4cyl probe at freeway speeds,put on a new belt and fired it right up,along with other makes and models as well.hopefully luck will be on your side.Might want to pull the valve cover and inspect rocker arms,springs,ect.before you do any turning over of the engine imo.

 

[taxreliever]

Ive had this happen before on my Expedition, espically if you are pointed up or down a hill.

Add gas, and then see if it fires after primeing it, if it dont shoot some starting fluid in intake, if it starts its a fuel issue (probely pump), if it doesnt start then you got a spark issue.

Ken, here is the basics for you...

An engine needs 3 things to work..

It needs:
Air
fuel
spark.

You must have all 3 for the engine to run.

When you turn the key, the engine should turn over. If not you have an electrical issue, with the starting system, or with the starter...

If it turns and does not fire up you have to decipher which of the 3 elements its missing...
Typically if an engine is turning over with the starter, its getting air.

So that leaves an issue with spark or fuel..

Quick way to check is spray some starting fluid in the throttle body and turn it over... If it tries to start. Its got spark. so by proccess of elimination you have a fuel issue...

You can check for spark with a screw driver or by pulling the plug..
Pull the plug out, touch it to the head with the plug wire still connected and turn over the engine.. (Use insulated pliers to avoid being shocked) if you see the spark then your good to go. If you don't make sure everything is covered well and that its dark enough for you to see. Then try again... if you don't have spark then you have found your issue...

This awesome......I'm slowly turning into a gear head!!!!!

I can't tell you fellas how much I've learned from you all! Over the last few years on here, I've learned so much and have even built up my little tool collection.

Thanks.

 

[taxreliever]

Charlie qutoed "Sounds like the timing belt cut loose. When it went, it probably bent all the valves too. You will have to do a compression test once you get the new belt back on."

This is not always the case tho Ken,all depends on what rpm's the motor was turning when the belt went...I had one go in a 4cyl probe at freeway speeds,put on a new belt and fired it right up,along with other makes and models as well.hopefully luck will be on your side.Might want to pull the valve cover and inspect rocker arms,springs,ect.before you do any turning over of the engine imo.

Sounds like the timing belt cut loose. When it went, it probably bent all the valves too. You will have to do a compression test once you get the new belt back on.

Thanks!!! Will do....but if valves are bent or compression is not there, is that that the time, they need to start evaluating whether it's worth fixing or not?

Because, the engine was turned many many times before we figured out that the belt was not turning.....from what you both said above, can all that turning bend and break things?

 

[BuzzGun79]

Ken...i am not going to deny that valve damage is not a possibility.once the belt breaks while the engine is running it throughs off the timing in relation to how the valves open and close to the location of the piston in its stroke,which causes the piston to slam into the valve,this all depends on engine rpm's at the time of failure.usually if this happens by pulling the valve cover the rocker arms in most cases either break or thrown off their location,along with valve spring and lifter failure which is noticeable by inspection..Now cranking of the engine after the belt has broken ususally does not affect the engine for the bottom of the engine is cranking,not the top.when the belts go they strip the teeth of the belt off and wont jump so to speak like a worn chain might have in older vehicles.Timing belts jump at failure while the engine is running.It is always best while doing the job to pull the valve cover first and inspect the valve train for damage,then go from there.I had a experience with a Suzuki Samari where the two did collide,bent and broke off the valves,broke the springs,along with head damage..it all had to be replaced at a pretty penny i might add,upon inspection the piston top of the affected cylinder did not show catastrophic damage,rotated in its stroke and no visible cylinder damage,so we went with the head and reasembled,that cyclinder would not fire due to ring breakage,had to tear it back down and make it right.some of the hurdles and chances that one may run across in this type of senerio.IMO if catastrophic failure is present,you wont know till the engine is tore down how serious it is.then it is a judgement call weather to rebuild or replace the engine,some case's it is just better and more cost effective to replace the engine.Import parts and major engine components are very costly,along with a great deal of down time if for example a head has to be ordered from overseas.,not many dealerships leave these on the shelf and used parts can be hard to locate, simply put their still on the road.trust me i know.It is always best to replace the Timing belt in preventative measures (before it fails) usually at 50k no more than 70k tops pending how the vehicle is used.

 

[taxreliever]

Ken...i am not going to deny that valve damage is not a possibility.once the belt breaks while the engine is running it throughs off the timing in relation to how the valves open and close to the location of the piston in its stroke,which causes the piston to slam into the valve,this all depends on engine rpm's at the time of failure.usually if this happens by pulling the valve cover the rocker arms in most cases either break or thrown off their location,along with valve spring and lifter failure which is noticeable by inspection..Now cranking of the engine after the belt has broken ususally does not affect the engine for the bottom of the engine is cranking,not the top.when the belts go they strip the teeth of the belt off and wont jump so to speak like a worn chain might have in older vehicles.Timing belts jump at failure while the engine is running.It is always best while doing the job to pull the valve cover first and inspect the valve train for damage,then go from there.I had a experience with a Suzuki Samari where the two did collide,bent and broke off the valves,broke the springs,along with head damage..it all had to be replaced at a pretty penny i might add,upon inspection the piston top of the affected cylinder did not show catastrophic damage,rotated in its stroke and no visible cylinder damage,so we went with the head and reasembled,that cyclinder would not fire due to ring breakage,had to tear it back down and make it right.some of the hurdles and chances that one may run across in this type of senerio.IMO if catastrophic failure is present,you wont know till the engine is tore down how serious it is.then it is a judgement call weather to rebuild or replace the engine,some case's it is just better and more cost effective to replace the engine.Import parts and major engine components are very costly,along with a great deal of down time if for example a head has to be ordered from overseas.,not many dealerships leave these on the shelf and used parts can be hard to locate, simply put their still on the road.trust me i know.It is always best to replace the Timing belt in preventative measures (before it fails) usually at 50k no more than 70k tops pending how the vehicle is used.

Thanks! Will do...

 

[BuzzGun79]

Hang in there Ken,that post prepares you for the worst that can happen,Hopefully your situation wont be as catastrophic.

 

[smokey]

From what I read looks like you may be safe as some models had a non- interference engine meaning no valve damage.

 

[BuzzGun79]

Thanks Randy for bringing that up..it was an oversight on my part..just keep away from those Suzuki's...lol

 

[taxreliever]

From what I read looks like you may be safe as some models had a non- interference engine meaning no valve damage.

It looks like this is the case, but what happened was she drove in my yard after using it all day, parked, did he business, then went out to start it and apparently stripped all the teeth at the bottom of the timing belt, the part on the cam shaft pulley.

Got a new belt, and they're working on the timing as I type!

 

[taxreliever]

All back together and it started, idled and test drove fine.

Buddy drove it home and now can't stop it from over heating!

Any help on what might have been missed or something related that caused this?