rear axle seal leaking 78 4WD 150

[Fellro]

I looked up all the variations of bearings offered by Timken as well as the AZ brand (stick with Timken or National is my recommendation) and found some interesting things. When you go to order, you need to know the weight rating of the axle, and if it is 3300 then you need to know tapered roller or ball bearing.
Seals: One is listed as common to all weight axles, Timken 2689S ($17.99)
3300 axle:51098 for ball bearing ($5.99), 3195 for tapered bearing (9.99)
3600,3750 axle: 482253 ($11.99)

Bearings are where the money is at.
Valucraft V20 tapered 3300 axle, $24.99 (only offering for tapered) I would expect a Set 20 is the Timken number, not given by the lookup system, maybe not offered by AZ

Timken ball bearing 88128RA, $38.99
Timken 88128RAP $51.99

3750 and 3600 axle: Timken RUB1580EBFR $99.99

 

[Alvin in AZ]

Timken Set20 ~$24 @ Rockauto...

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?catalog=118&partnum=SET20&a=FR118-SET20-630424

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/g...MKEN/SET20-A.jpg&imagekey=1117245-0&width=450

Alvin in AZ

 

[shortbed]

There is a lot of uncertainty about these bearings and seals and I very much appreciate the research you have done on them and I copied all that and will take it with me when I finally get to the store. I’ve heard the same thing from the parts guys I’ve talked to, but my strategy right now is to buy all of the possible seals and bearings and return the ones that don’t fit. I’ve told my parts guy this and it was okay with him and he even ordered the one seal he didn’t have on stock knowing it might be returned.

And I’ve found a good machine shop. The owner told me he’d only charge 10 or 15 dollars to remove the old bearing and press on a new one and seal.

I’m hoping it will be apparent which bearing and which seal is the right one when we’re holding everything in our hands.

Some questions:
If the old race looks okay can I just leave it in place within the axle housing?
Should I oil or grease the seal or the groove where it fits around that bearing race?
Is there a trick to setting that assembly (axle shaft with axle bearing and seal) back into the axle housing and onto the bearing race without distorting the new seal, or setting it in some way that does not provide a tight enough seal?

And my axle shaft valve; that little tube that screws into the axle shaft. I’ve removed it and cleaned it, but is it supposed to be ‘A Valve’? It has a pinhole in the center (about 1/16 of an inch) I’ve heard that sometimes the differential is supposed to operate with a slight vacuum. But that would not be possible with a clear opening in this tube. So if it is supposed to be a valve, how does it open and close?
Or is it just a vent? And if so why such a small hole. Why not make it the width of the tube itself which is about ¼ of an inch?

Thanks for sharing your expertise on all this . . .

Jim in NC

 

[Mil1ion]

I guess you never thought to post the Axle ID Characters off the Axle tag (if there is one) ?

 

[shortbed]

Well I just got back from checking the tag on the inside of the door panel and, just to make everything more interesting, the rear axle rating is given as 3580 pounds. I would have checked under the carriage for an axle tag, but it's dark and raining.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

At night with a flashlight has its advantages, like when looking into a steel
tank, for an extreme example. Raining now, that's another thing entirely.

The second tag down is off the '75 F150 I bought new, check out how beat
up it is from all the miles on dirt roads. I had flattened it out too. No rust on
it, just dents. LOL

Shorty, somewhere along the line I got confused and thought you had taken
your axles out already too.

"Ford never learned how to make the same part twice " -my Chevy buddies

If it were mine, I wouldn't go by any numbers on any labels or out of any
data bases either, I'd go by actual measurements.

People typing in the data bases have had trouble keeping up with all of Ford's
parts number changes and besides, hardly anyone knows the -full- history of
these old pickups on top of that problem.

My '75 F150 I bought new and have done all the work on it myself too, over
36 years, is a rare exception.

Ford's own data base for my gas cap is wrong for example. A couple other
things have come up but I can't be 100% sure about them since they were
swept away and not allowed to be proven. But the rear tank gas cap could
not be, they tried to sweep it away too, but it was just way too obvious.

Alvin in AZ
ps- The bottom tag's off my F150's T18, the other two are off the '75 F100
parts truck, funny them both being made in the last week of Jan of '75 huh?

 

[BKW]

Alvin: In a Ford parts catalog, axle seals and bearings are not listed under 9" rear axle parts lists. They are listed separately.

Which means, the codes on 9" rear axle tags are worthless for ID'ing which type of axle seals/bearings are required.

1974/79 F100 & 1975/79 F150 could have the axle bearing/seal combination, or the seal separate from the bearing. All 1957/73's have the separate seal.

These bearings have BIN's (Bearing Industry Numbers) marked on them, used by every autoparts store.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Axle bearing/seal combo: Ford only sold the bearing with the seal, the bearing was not sold by itself.

D4AZ-1225-A .. Axle Bearing/Seal / BIN: U-399-A

D4AZ-1177-A .. Seal only.
--------------------------
D8AZ-1225-B (replaced: C9AZ-1225-A, C1SZ-1225-A & B) .. Axle Bearing / BIN: F-208-HL

EOTZ-1S177-CA (replaced: EOTZ-1177-C, C9AZ-1177-A, B7A-1177-A) .. Axle Seal.

 

[my69]

How is work in USA at the moment,what i hear on tv is not good but can't really trust what you see on tele. Hope its not as bad as there reporting. At least it's cheaper for me to import parts at the moment as long as suppliers have stock!

 

[Fellro]

It really depends where you stand. Here in the central Midwest, there is work if you are willing to look for it. We didn't get hit as hard around here, 6% is the worst it got.

 

[my69]

Thats good to hear Roger, media seems to doom and gloom the USA at the moment.Central Midwest is that nascar country? or is that more southern states.

 

[Fellro]

Well, I have Chicago Speedway to my east, Kansas City to my southwest, and Iowa Speedway designed and created by Rusty Wallace 45 minutes away. However, the true Nascar country is typically the southeast part of the country.
I also have 3 good dragstrips in the area, and Knoxville, Iowa is the "Sprint Car capitol of the world" which is about 30 minutes south of the Iowa Speedway.

 

[shortbed]

Well, Alvin, Bill, Roger . . . the next step is the parts store. I pulled the second axle this afternoon and cleaned both of them up some. I’m going to take them with me and maybe ID which bearing and seal is the right one (my part guy’s ordered the one seal he didn’t have and that makes 3 seals and 3 bearings that might be right according to him).

Roger I can’t figure how I’ve got a 3580 lb. rear axle weight rating, but that’s what the decal in the door says though that number’s not come up on anybody’s screen so far. The existing bearings are tapered. I can see that.

I’ve still got some questions on installation if anybody knows:
There was something like a sealing compound in the space between the race and the axle housing. It came out something like a gasket sealer would but very thin. Do I put anything in there when I reinstall the axle: a gasket sealer, grease . . . anything.

And I used Lucas Gear Oil last time, but I can’t afford it this time. Any suggestions on that. I’ve got a LSD (did that test with spinning one wheel and watching the other . . . it spun in the same direction).

Oh and some numbers on the Differential. These were stamped into the housing:
05AW . . . 4888A . . . 24 . . . DIF . . . then something that looked like a small tag with the numbers so worn I could barely read them but maybe: 0010 or 0019 . . . for what it's worth.

I’m hoping I can get the parts and then over to the machine shop tomorrow and wait for him to do the work and maybe start putting it all back together over the weekend.

Alvin, I thought about your method for removing the bearings and collar, but my machine shop guy said it would take him 2 minutes to get them off with a torch, so I’m going to let him do that for me.

How’s your project coming along KBrian.

 

[KBrian80]

Pretty good. Got the drums today, so the axle is ready to go back in. Just gotta get the frame done so I can put it in. Hoping it will be drivable in a few days. Still gotta get a coil of brake line/fuel filter and some new wiring for the lights/tank lined out. Gonna run 100% new brake lines, the one that goes from the back to the front is 2 pieces, now it will be one piece from a 25' coil.

After that, then I'll start the front axle. :>

BTW, see my thread for pix of the brakes, or if you need more I can send them. Only trouble I had was trying to do it all upside down, but it wasn't bad.

 

[Fellro]

I would go with the 3580 axle = 3600, only 20 pounds difference...
The advantage of using the Lucas oil again is that you don't need a LS additive for the clutches, where as the cheaper oil will require you to add the LS additive after having put the oil in. I wouldn't see a need for a sealer on the race, as the seal takes care of that, but a little bit on the edge of the seal likely wouldn't hurt anything.

 

[shortbed]

Hey KBrian & Roger;

I pulled the other axle and decided to deal with the parts store that my machine shop deals with. If there is any problem they promised to work it out between themselves and the parts store bearings are Link Belt, but at least made in the USA. There are Timken bearings on there now (U365L stamped on the side). What do you think of Link Belt? I’ve never heard of them myself.
Tomorrow a buddy is going to drive me and the axles to the shop and we see if they’ve got time to do the job while we wait.
Then I’m going to look around for the best source for Lucas dif lube. I remember it being very pricey.
I know a guy who rebuilds off road vehicles . . . not well enough to ask as many questions as I do you guys, but he once told me to drain whatever it was I’d put in there and put in Lucas. He, let’s say, is confident in that product.
KBrian. You’ve pulled your axles. But you said you were going to put them back without replacing the seals. Are you hoping the cleaned out axle vent will do the trick?
I’ll let you know how the rest of my project goes.

Roger: thanks for all the support along the way. Thank you, everyone, who responded to my posts.

Jim

 

[Fellro]

I don't recall for sure what the Lucas runs for, but it isn't generally hard to find. A local farm store has the best price around here. we carry it at the store as well, but it isn't bottom dollar by any stretch of the imagination. I want to sat around $10 a quart, so it will be a $40 fill.
Link belt is quality as well, the way I know the name is actually the construction equipment.

 

[Mil1ion]

The seals should have numbers on them as well.

Maybe wipe inside the groove and look for them

 

[Fellro]

I don't think he actually has the seal off yet, it should be on the outside of it typically.

 

[fatherdoug]

I don't recall for sure what the Lucas runs for, but it isn't generally hard to find. A local farm store has the best price around here. we carry it at the store as well, but it isn't bottom dollar by any stretch of the imagination. I want to sat around $10 a quart, so it will be a $40 fill.
Link belt is quality as well, the way I know the name is actually the construction equipment.

Link Belt builds Heavy Duty Cranes, so one could assume that their parts are heavy duty also?

 

[KBrian80]

I replaced the push in seal, but not the one that has to be pressed on the axle. Yes I'm hoping that the vent issue will solve any leaks, but I'm gonna plan on putting both new seals in again at a later date. I have other things to work on right now, and it won't be drivable for a while, so no harm no foul.