De Tomaso Pantera

[eco]

I found a Pantera w/ 351C motor for a good price...and MAN is this one nice!!

Anyone else have one or driven one?

 

[Bob Ayers]

Never driven one, but I got some pictures of a nice one last year:

 

[Fellro]

My uncle used to have one, it was fairly nice, but a PITA to work on. A coworker had one in the past as well, looked like the one in the pic...

 

[Skandocious]

I love those things. Aren't they super rare and expensive?

 

[Fellro]

they didn't make too many of them, but after a while, they are rattle traps, but they sure have go power...

 

[polarbear]

Define "good price." Then remember Henry Ford II's son was killed in one of those things.

 

[eco]

Define "good price." Then remember Henry Ford II's son was killed in one of those things.

30K

Here it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRiDNEgtbmw

It's got a very radical cam in it and it's a bit cold blooded, but it's a beast.

 

[Skandocious]

Hahahahah I think 'very radical cam' is an understatement! You can hear EACH cylinder fire!!!

 

[1970Custom]

I'd flog the piss outta that thing.

 

[polarbear]

I'd flog the piss outta that thing.

And it'd spit on your grave. That was the problem with those cars- although mid-engine, they were very unbalanced and the suspension wasn't well sorted out. Add a lot of horsepower to that mixture and it's a deadly combination. The early Porsche 930 Turbo's were the same way- with the added thrill of 65% rear weight distribution and turbo lag. The challenge with both cars was driving them fast... and living to tell about it.

 

[1970Custom]

Never said it'd be FASSSST flogging, clutch drops from red line and full steering lock would be involved as well as clutch drops in a straight line....

 

[Brian_B]

That is an interesting car. Anyone have a link to background on them? I don't recall ever seeing one. Who made then, when, etc.???

Just curious.

 

[eco]

That is an interesting car. Anyone have a link to background on them? I don't recall ever seeing one. Who made then, when, etc.???

Just curious.

Wikipedia probably has a page on it.

It's an old school, exotic, Italian "muscle car" with the motor/trans in the back, and equiped with a big block Ford 351C.

 

[Brian_B]

Wikipedia probably has a page on it.

It's an old school, exotic, Italian "muscle car" with the motor/trans in the back, and equiped with a big block Ford 351C.

Yes...there is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Tomaso_Pantera

Interesting. I don't recall ever seeing one (I am in rural AR).

 

[Bob Ayers]

Wikipedia probably has a page on it.

It's an old school, exotic, Italian "muscle car" with the motor/trans in the back, and equiped with a big block Ford 351C.

Sorry, the 351C, and 351W are small blocks.

 

[eco]

Sorry, the 351C, and 351W are small blocks.

No reason to apoligize.

I don't know enough about them to try to debate the issue, but I have known it to be a big block only because this one guy I know that parts out rigs, some of which have the 351C, calls it a big block.

I never said anything about the 351W being a big block.

EDIT: I just googled 351C big block just to see what comes up, and there seems to be some debate on the classification of the 351C as being a big block or a small block, which seem to be semi-loose terms without a cut and dry fine line anyways.

 

[1970Custom]

Last I checked the 351C had the Windsor bell housing pattern....

 

[Bob Ayers]

This is the first reference I came to for them, and they both seem to be small block:

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/index.htm

 

[eco]

Last I checked the 351C had the Windsor bell housing pattern....

Last you checked? It would still hold true then since the bolt pattern probably has not changed any.

Perhaps the confusion is due to the deck height since it is a taller block motor or possibly some other appearence issue as opposed to the bell housing bolt pattern.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Last you checked? It would still hold true then since the bolt pattern probably has not changed any.

Perhaps the confusion is due to the deck height since it is a taller block motor or possibly some other appearence issue as opposed to the bell housing bolt pattern.

The real confusion stems from Ford has NEVER classified their motors as big or small block.......it's more a Chevy term.

However, over the years, it has been accepted to classify Fords as such.

Now here's the fun part:

The C's (335 series motor) are actually fairly close in deck size to the 351 Windsors.....and NOBODY disputes the W as being a small block. The Clevelands also, as stated, all share the small bellhousing bolt pattern.

The 351M/400 are also part of the "335" series but the vast majority use the "big block" 385 series bellhousing pattern (370/429/460) and they are an inch taller than the C.


I, being a student of Ford motors, have my opinion and I believe it to be the
defining reasoning.

If you accept the Ford 221/255/260/289/302 and the 351 Windsor as "small blocks" and being the 351C and 351M/400 share the EXACT bore spacing as all the small blocks.....which means every cylinder head from 221-400 will bolt up to every block from 221-400 then the C's and 351M/400's MUST be small blocks.


There are a few water passage mods to allow the cylinder head interchange, and in fact a set of the right Cleveland heads on a 302 (BOSS 302 as an example) or 351W was an accepted swap before the onslaught of aftermarket inline W heads.


The NASCAR motors are a match of Windsor style dry sump blocks with 4 bolt mains that use the smaller Cleveland main journal size.

The heads are relatives of the big valve canted Cleveland style heads which are now called Yates heads.



To sum it up, 351C's and 351M/400's are "small blocks" if you call 302/351W's small blocks.



Oh, and Panteras are a definite must have dream car of mine someday.

Look up Mangusta also to get more of the DeTomaso/Ford hook up......it was kinda cool.