alternative fuels

[blacksnapon]

Like it or not, alternative fuels are on the horizon. Which way do you see the united states going to first? Any reason for your decision?

 

[6L PWR]

That's a good question. It always seems as though several manufacturers will all try something different here and nothing will be standardized for a while. Look at the diesel. It's just now getting standardized. We'll probably have several options from different manufacturers for quite a while and everything will be a PITA!! You'll have to find a station that carries what you need for your particular car. I know that it's difficult sometimes in the suburban areas of a city just to find diesel. It'll be interesting for a while at least.

 

[Andyman8282]

Alternative fuels seem to follow the costs associated with them. The price per barrel of oil and price per barrel of other fuels, such as ethanol, changes daily so it's hard to set a to-date example.

Aslong as oil stays below something like $105 per barrel *adjust for 2.5% inflation per year* $105(1 + .025)² the country will stick with oil.

If oil rises above $105 the country will start using cheaper alternatives; and no one will complain because fuel-prices will be something in the $3.80/gallon+ range.

Note: This $105 only applies to us gassers, since diesel is SUPER-subsidized by the government. Diesel fuel is so essential to our country (Through trucks, trains, construction equipment, farm equipment, military use, etc.) so it can only get so high.

 

[blacksnapon]

I'm betting on hydrogen to be here eventually. I mean, heck, the by product of burning hydrogen is water.

 

[Gunner]

I'm betting on hydrogen to be here eventually. I mean, heck, the by product of burning hydrogen is water.

Hydrogen, right now is a no go. The easiest way to get hydrogen is to crack it out of petroleum (so you're right back where you started from). Until they figure out a cost effective way of getting hydrogen out of water, it's really a non starter.

What I see happening is bio diesel, and gasoline being phased out in favor of diesel engines (hence the sudden interest by the EPA about the emissions of new diesel vehicles). Diesel is a LOT cheaper and easier to refine from oil, and you can make more of it from a barrel of oil than you can gasoline. Couple that with some of the bio initiaves that are coming around (say making bio diesel from some kind of odd african plant (saw that on TV), or sorgum or other ag waste products), I'd be willing to bet you're going to start seeing diesel cars again.

One thing I read about. Some wiseguy professor in Iowa or someplace like that was looking for a way to seperate hydrogen out of sea water. He happened to hit the sea water with microwaves, and it ignited and burned at 3000F. Kill the microwaves, and the seawater(!) quit burning. Nobody knows how it works yet, but it must have promise because DARPA and The Department Of Defence swooped down and classified this as soon as they heard about it.

Who knows.....but I'd bet on diesels

Gunner

 

[O'Rattlecan]

gunner, as long as they back that up with a source of power we're not going to run out of... then they might be onto something. Nuclear or fission?

Ryan

 

[Andyman8282]

I think Gunner's right. The country should focus it's non-oil related fuel research soley on diesel. Imagine what would happen if a new technology/process was created that would lower the cost to around $1.20 per gallon of diesel. Who wouldn't want to drive a diesel? (Heck, they could tack on another 10% in fuel-taxes and build more and better quality roads if fuel was that cheap.)

 

[O'Rattlecan]

don't give them any more ideas about taxes than they already have.

Ryan

 

[blacksnapon]

I think Gunner's right. The country should focus it's non-oil related fuel research soley on diesel. Imagine what would happen if a new technology/process was created that would lower the cost to around $1.20 per gallon of diesel. Who wouldn't want to drive a diesel? (Heck, they could tack on another 10% in fuel-taxes and build more and better quality roads if fuel was that cheap.)

That would be nice to lessen our dependence on oil, whether it be foreign or domestic. Let the opec folks eat that oil! If we can drop usage, they'll have oil coming out of their ears.

 

[blackhat620]

I think you will see some experiments with alternative fuels, but for the most part i believe they will be experiments for many more years to come. I think biofuel and hydrogen will be the two most common alternative fuels explored.

That being said i really think we will see hybrid vehicles become a reality long before any alternative fuels are main stream. GM is set to release a diesel electric hybrid in the Tahoe/Yukon series. It is called Hybrid 2 Mode by GM and still has all the tow and performance ratings of the standard version but the Hybrid version is giving 40% better fuel economy. IMO there is still too much petroleum in the world for people to seriously consider alternative fuels. Alternative fuels are still to costly and to difficult to find in the retail market. The cost to build the retail outlets for alternative fuels and the cost of the fuel itself is still a driving factor limiting the adoption of alternative fuels, not to mention the R&D costs to produce alternative fuel power plants.

 

[Gunner]

Hybrids are loosers too. When the vehicle is worn out, and they scrap it, what are they planning on doing with all those heavy batteries that move the thing around. It's going to be a toxic nightmare to dispose of all those heavy, nasty batteries..................Right now they're being touted as the "environemntally freindly" alternative to fuel driven automobiles. Just wait untill they have to deal with the toxic mess of all those huge batteries........

Gunner

 

[blackhat620]

Hybrids are loosers too. When the vehicle is worn out, and they scrap it, what are they planning on doing with all those heavy batteries that move the thing around. It's going to be a toxic nightmare to dispose of all those heavy, nasty batteries..................

Gunner

I don't disagree with that at all, but the public will put up with that before they will put up with the inconvience and cost of alternative fuels.

But hey if it wasn't for the damn envionronmentalists we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

 

[O'Rattlecan]

at least for a longer period of time...

Ryan

 

[Gunner]

I don't disagree with that at all, but the public will put up with that before they will put up with the inconvience and cost of alternative fuels.

But hey if it wasn't for the damn envionronmentalists we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

Think about this though. Wal Mart charges 5 bucks to dispose of a used CAR battery that weighs somewhere around 25-50 pounds. Now, let trade our hypothetical hybrid for a new vehicle.......or better yet, lets replace the batteries at Wal Mart. What do you think the core charge on 4 250+ pound batteries is going to be? Joe Consumer isn't going to sit still for THAT very long.

Gunner

 

[6L PWR]

I think we'll be seeing a Mister Fusion on the back of cars where we'll put banana peels and beer in them to generate 1.21 Gigawatts of power. That'd give me like 1 GigaHorsePower. Woo hoo!!

 

[surewhynot]

I can see you adding extra fermentation to push it to that 1.5 gigahorsepower. Got rods???

 

[6L PWR]

I can see you adding extra fermentation to push it to that 1.5 gigahorsepower. Got rods???

Hmmm, liquid cooling and overclocking and I could double that!! Oh yeah, can you imagine throwing rods out of a reactor? Now THAT would be kewel!!

 

[blackhat620]

Think about this though. Wal Mart charges 5 bucks to dispose of a used CAR battery that weighs somewhere around 25-50 pounds. Now, let trade our hypothetical hybrid for a new vehicle.......or better yet, lets replace the batteries at Wal Mart. What do you think the core charge on 4 250+ pound batteries is going to be? Joe Consumer isn't going to sit still for THAT very long.Gunner

The batteries in Hybrid vehicles are not the same type as the lead acid used to start your car or truck. The batteries currently used in hybrid cars are NiMH and are designed to last 150-200k miles and are warrantied 8-10 years from the vehicle manufacture. Also NiMH batteries are fully recyclable and currently on the Toyota Hybrids, Toyota pays the person bringing in the old batterys $200. So it does not cost the consumer a battery disposal fee like current lead acid batteries.

 

[Andyman8282]

I think we'll be seeing a Mister Fusion on the back of cars where we'll put banana peels and beer in them to generate 1.21 Gigawatts of power. That'd give me like 1 GigaHorsePower. Woo hoo!!

1 GigaHorsePower... by God, that may just be able to get you to 88mph Marty!

 

[Andyman8282]

don't give them any more ideas about taxes than they already have.

Ryan

Those taxes I don't mind paying My Thunderbird doesn't like holes in the road.