Advancing my base timing

[Skandocious]

So I checked/set my timing a couple months ago to make sure it was in the right place after I did a tuneup. Set it 10* BTDC (where it's supposed to be) and all was good, but my truck always seemed a little underpowered. So today I borrowed my neighbor's timing light and advanced her to 14* BTDC, and now it feels like she's got quite a bit more UMPH! Is it just in my head of does advancing the timing really give more get up and go? And yes I know if you advance it too much it'll start to ping; so far I've had no problems keeping it at 14* so all is well

 

[blacksnapon]

Did you disconnect the spout connector before you set the timing?

 

[Skandocious]

LOL! I almost included that in my first post cuz I KNEW someone would mention it. Yes sir I disconnected the SPOUT

 

[blacksnapon]

Did you put it back?

 

[Skandocious]

Hahaha oh Vince my savior! I forgot to return the spout connector to it's proper --- OF COURSE I PUT IT BACK!!!

Lol, all I wanna know is -- is it just in my head or am I really squeezing a bit more power out of my engine with the timing advanced 4* extra?

 

[blacksnapon]

You will feel more response and power. It makes it easier to develop peak power advanced like that. Just dont go too far, spark knock, hard starting.........well, you get the idea

 

[Blue Goose]

You might be compensating for some slop in a 100,000 mile timing chain...

 

[Skandocious]

Sweet

So right now I'm at 14* BTDC... What's the highest I would want to take it before having to upgrade to a higher octane fuel (I'm currently runnin 87 with no knocking).

 

[Blue Goose]

Back in the day mechanics would power time my Dad's boats. We would take the boat out on the lake with the engine hatch removed and run the boat wfo while the mechanic would tweak the distributor for maximum rpm's. We would then idle the boat down, shut the engine off, and try to restart. If the engine kicked back, the timing was retarded accordingly and the distributor was tightened.

 

[eco]

When you hooked up the timing light, did you clamp the wire for cylinder #1?

 

[Skandocious]

When you hooked up the timing light, did you clamp the wire for cylinder #1?

Yes I did... I set my timing correctly, I've done it before and know how to do it. That's not what this thread is about.

 

[Fellro]

Something else that sometimes happens is that the rubber deteriorates that hold the outer ring of the harmonic balancer to the inner hub, and lets the outer ring move a little, making the timing measurements be off a little. But also, advancing the timing does help performance to a point. It tends to not help emissions though, and that is part of why many engines are tuned a little retarded by factory specs. Bumping the timing up a little is an old power adding trick...

 

[Skandocious]

I wondered about the real accuracy of that ring...So perhaps if that ring has spun around a bit then I'm just sitting at 10* (or worse) right now... Crap. I guess maybe I could just keep bumping it up until it knocks and then retard it a bit...

 

[blacksnapon]

I wondered about the real accuracy of that ring...So perhaps if that ring has spun around a bit then I'm just sitting at 10* (or worse) right now... Crap. I guess maybe I could just keep bumping it up until it knocks and then retard it a bit...

I've had some of them with the keyway worn out on the balancer.

 

[Skandocious]

I've had some of them with the keyway worn out on the balancer.

English please? Whats a keyway?

 

[blacksnapon]

The slot in the center hole of the balancer that locates the balancer in the proper place. It lines up with the woodruff key (the raised part on the front of the crankshaft that the balancer is on)

 

[eco]

Yes I did... I set my timing correctly, I've done it before and know how to do it. That's not what this thread is about.

I know what this thread is about, I am just making sure you arn't in over your head, so I took it upon myself to make sure you hooked the light up correctly. Blacksnapon made sure you removed and hooked back up the spout, so I made sure you clamped the right cable.

As far as more timing resulting in more power...the more advance the better, within a certain point. More timing will result in more torque and HP all throughout the RPM band because the sooner combustion begins, the more power gets generated in that cylinder. But, at the same time, the sooner combustion begins the more stress there is on the entire bottom end of the motor (pistons, mains etc.). Another thing to worry about regarding the advancement of base and total timing is preignition. On the flip side, retarded timing will result in less stress on the bottom end, but also less power and WAY higher exhaust temps. All that heat that gets generated during combustion just goes right out the exhause as opposed to being used up in the form of HP to push the piston down on the power stroke due to combustion taking place so late. So, you need to find a happy medium. The reason such retarded base timing is needed is to start the motor. Once the motor is running, depending on RPM and design, there should be about 20*-30* of advance.

My Duster has 20* base timing and 35* total timing, increasing from base timing depending on RPM. It also has a high rpm retard of 3* and a cranking retard of 5*.

 

[Skandocious]

As far as more timing resulting in more power...the more advance the better, within a certain point. More timing will result in more torque and HP all throughout the RPM band because the sooner combustion begins, the more power gets generated in that cylinder. But, at the same time, the sooner combustion begins the more stress there is on the entire bottom end of the motor (pistons, mains etc.). Another thing to worry about regarding the advancement of base and total timing is preignition. On the flip side, retarded timing will result in less stress on the bottom end, but also less power and WAY higher exhaust temps. All that heat that gets generated during combustion just goes right out the exhause as opposed to being used up in the form of HP to push the piston down on the power stroke due to combustion taking place so late. So, you need to find a happy medium. The reason such retarded base timing is needed is to start the motor. Once the motor is running, depending on RPM and design, there should be about 20*-30* of advance.

My Duster has 20* base timing and 35* total timing, increasing from base timing depending on RPM. It also has a high rpm retard of 3* and a cranking retard of 5*.

Good info eco, thanks. Wasn't aware that the advanced timing would cause more stress to the engine. Am I in any sort of danger zone running her at 14* BTC?

And hey eco, we all call each other by first name around here, any chance you'd be willing to divulge your true identity to us?

 

[blacksnapon]

Good post, ECO. But one thing I have seen, Scandocious is very well educated and aware of how his truck works. We dont need any sparks here.

 

[eco]

Good info eco, thanks. Wasn't aware that the advanced timing would cause more stress to the engine. Am I in any sort of danger zone running her at 14* BTC?

And hey eco, we all call each other by first name around here, any chance you'd be willing to divulge your true identity to us?

The problem with advancing the base timing on an application like this is that you are also advancing the entire timing table. The only way that I know of to get around that is to use a tuner. So, is 14* base timing in and of itself a problem? As long as you can start the motor...then no. But is there any other spot in the timing table that got advanced far enough to possibly damage the motor? I have no idea. Thats the chance you are taking. All it would take is enough heat in a cylinder (ie. from a load) and enough timing advance in that cylinder to ignite the air and fuel too soon. Then what you have is combustion taking place early enough in the compression stroke to where the power generated by the combustion is actually trying to push the piston back down. Thats bad...