Why would I find plastic pieces in my oil pan?

[NeXtras]

That many miles it wouldnt surprise me if they werent slack.

my truck has 213k miles on it and the chain cover has NEVER been off.. still runs like a charm

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

Yeah some motors are fine with that many miles and some aint. Is yours over head cam?

 

[NeXtras]

Yeah some motors are fine with that many miles and some aint. Is yours over head cam?

no, mines a 5.0.. OHV.. compltely different timing setup and different chain.. but working at a dealership, ive seen mumerous 5.4 with high high mileage and have very few problems, and never timing related... we have more problems with the 3V 5.4 than anything, the cam phasers SUCK and love to make noise

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

Yeah I know they got way differnt setups I just wasnt sure if yours was overhead cam or not bein so new. I can understand why them triton motors suck so bad. We had a v10 blow a spark plug out of the head. They told us 3500 bucks or somethin like that for a new head or 4500 for a new crate motor so we just bought the new crate motor.

 

[blackhat620]

my question, how did the guide break?

Faulty chain tensioner will allow the chains to flop around to much resulting in the plastic guide being worn away/broken.

 

[flareside_thunder]

my truck has 213k miles on it and the chain cover has NEVER been off.. still runs like a charm

You're gonna snap bolts when you do change that timing set.....

 

[NeXtras]

You're gonna snap bolts when you do change that timing set.....

PB blaster is your friend my friend lol... soak it everyday for a month, they'll come out

 

[flareside_thunder]

If you're lucky they will....might wanna go ahead and change it man..IIRC my timing set still had the nylon sprockets....

 

[mjbtn]

Wow! Thanks to all for the feedback!! I have a pretty good idea now what the next steps should be.

One thing that is puzzling me right now is that the engine seemed to idle and rev fine (like normal) when I cranked it up to drive up on the ramps and was idling fine on the ramps before I cut it off. I then proceeded to drain and drop the pan to get take up unclogged and found the chain guide pieces, etc. My post here was after finding the pieces but before resecuring the pan and adding oil. I did this the next day and the pan seal appears to be good. Since the engine had been running normal when the oil pressure was up, I assumed that now that the take up was clear, it would continue to do so and I could at least drive it to garage if that was the route I chose next.

Well, I cranked it up and right away there now remains a wobble at idle and rev up. It feels like it might be a misfire or timing, but, I have nothing to reference something like that by with this engine. No Check Engine light, so, I don't think it is IAC or vaccum/EGR etc. With the wobble that is an occassional ping/click (which might be the chain slapping the remains of the right guide). but, it is for the most part quiet. But the wobble persists.

What puzzles me is what would have changed from the moment I turned it off on the ramps until I started it up again that would result in this wobble? The ONLY thing I did while it was on the ramps for drop the pan and clear the take up and oil pan of debris. No low oil pressure light now, so, i don't think it is clogged again though I am sure there is likely more debris still in there somewhere as what I took out of the pan is 1/4 to 1/3 the entire guide looking at the pictures and diagrams you guys provided.

I was hoping to at least be able to transport it under its own power but now I am concerned this wobble is an indication that running the engine (let alone driving it) now may make things worse. Is there anything else I might check or any way to confirm timing or misfire issue???? Wouldn't a misfiring cylinder trigger an emissions warning? Or, could removing the obstruction and restore full oil flow now have caused what's going under the chain cover to amplify (say, with the tensioners)? Could this possibly be something besides the chains/timing that might have been messed up with the low oil pressures?

Also, if I was to try to get the chain covers off leaving the engine in the truck, would the cam covers have to come off to open the chain covers? And, if so, how would one get the cam cover bolts on the back of the engine next to the firewall?

I guess I am trying to decide if I want to attempt this and/or if now signs of something far worse are appearing and I should consider other options!

Anyways, thanks again!!

 

[Truckin4life]

Possible that with out the guide the timing chain skipped a link, and now one bank is running incorrectly?

That would be my guess...

 

[mjbtn]

I wondered about that. With oil pressure back up, wouldn't the tensioners now be back to better functioning as well? And, if it has slipped, how would you know where it was supposed to have been when doing a chain job on it? As was said earlier, new chains are color coded. As was also suggested earlier, if going to this much effort, changing the chains would almost be a no brainer, so, with new the color coding, I assume knowing the positions of the existing chains is not such an issue??

 

[mjbtn]

Just curious if it would be worth a shortterm subscription to HELMINC.COM for my Expedition (for these problems)?

 

[NeXtras]

If you dont HAVE to drive it, its worth trying to do it yourself.. i would exactly call timing it a "no brainer".. its not painstakingly difficult, but it wont be a breeze either..

a stock chain is color coded as well.. has copper links.

If your going to re-do the chains, YES your valve covers (cam covers) will have to come off.. the drivers side will be MUCH easier than your passenger side.. take off what you can to get access is all you need to do..

I assume knowing the positions of the existing chains is not such an issue

you WILL want to pay attention to the marks on the cam gears and crank shaft in refference to the chain, because once those chains come off the cam will most likey spin due to pressure from the springs. which reminds me.. WHEN YOU TAKE THE CHAINS OFF GRAB THEM FROM THE TOP OF THE CAM GEAR. You DO NOT want to grab it where its just getting to the gear, the cams WILL spring and you DO NOT want your hand in the way!

 

[73F100Shortbed]

I was going to say timing chain guide when I saw pic.

Some chains have brass links for the timing marks as well...at least one the one expedition I did.

 

[mjbtn]

Shortbed, on the expedition you are referring to, did you pull the engine or leave it in? If you left it in, any pointers?

 

[blacksnapon]

The modular engine has a dislike of aftermarket oil filters. The silicone valving has a tendency to break down sending little pieces of silicone through the engine. There is a restrictor in each head that will plug up with these pieces, starving everything of oil. Because the tensioners are oil operated, having a good oil supply is important.

 

[blacksnapon]

Shortbed, on the expedition you are referring to, did you pull the engine or leave it in? If you left it in, any pointers?

The tensioners and chains in front can be done in the truck. The one in the rear requires engine removal.

 

[73F100Shortbed]

Shortbed, on the expedition you are referring to, did you pull the engine or leave it in? If you left it in, any pointers?

What blacksnapon said.

I had to do headgaskets on the expedition and it required taking the chains off. I didn't have to touch anything in back so the engine stayed in the truck. There are tools that hold the cams in place so they don't move around on you. The ones I used were made by OTC.

 

[mjbtn]

If I was to try and get a shop to do this, what should a timing chain job cost roughly? And, should I just tell them I need a "timing chain job" or is there a better way to put it in shop-lingo terms?? I haven't called anyone yet, and, I may still attempt it myself first and see how far I get (engine in that is). Another responder on one of the other forums suggested I not run the engine anymore as well (assuming that was suggested here, the timing chan has now slipped a notch or two and the right side is now out of sync). This makes more sense to me now too as the timing being off would not trigger a misfire alarm in the emissions systems, right? Thanks!

 

[mjbtn]

Blacksnapon, is there anything about my situational details in this thread that indicate if my pieces were from the front or rear? I will say that the long piece of the right chain guard was up in the front of the oil pan, so, perhaps that is some indication? Thanks!