Meanwhile, Fiat to Gut Chrysler Lineup

[1985 Ford F-150]

I know Ford made em for WW2 but I didnt think they made em after that.

 

[blackhat620]

I know Ford made em for WW2 but I didnt think they made em after that.

 

[blackhat620]

Don't go singing the Cummins praises so quickly. They're not the same as the Cummins of old. We have 2 '08's at work and can't keep them out of the shop.....they're not good.

Starting with the 08 Cummins and the new EPA mandates, the Cummins is going through the growing pains the early 6.0 PSD did. The EPA has killed the diesel engine for the near future with all the new requirements. Starting with the 2011 MY urea injection will be included in diesels, this is one more thing to buy and fill up when you purchase fuel.

Hmm maybe theyll give Ford Cummins then?

That is the last thing Ford needs, see above.

yeah I'm not a fan of the new cummins. I like the mechanical pumps. As far as the motors of new the all to me are about the same. You can't work on em so stick with the ford.

Cummins switched to electric fuel system with introduction of the 24V in 1998.

The modern diesel is dead for awhile until the engineers figure out how to meet EPA rules without killing performance, reliability and mileage. Starting with the 2008 MY requirements of EGR & DPF fuel mileage is down 25% on diesel engines, combine that with a $5-6K premium in price plus diesel fuel costing 0.25-0.50 cents more per gallon than unleaded, it is almost impossible to justify the cost of a diesel over a gas motor.

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

Stupid treehuggers why dont they let us have our fun.

 

[polarbear]

Stupid treehuggers why dont they let us have our fun.

I actually see the shadow of big oil in all this. With the mandated "clean" diesel fuel, oil companies are now able to export diesel to Europe... which explains why it suddenly got more expensive here.

The laws of unintended consequences still rule the earth.

re: New Cummins. I've been howling about this in more than a few threads. The 6.7 is a horrible motor- makes the Ford 6.0 look like the model of reliability.

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

Wonder how that 6.4 would do if it wasnt choked to death.

 

[KdPate]

From what a Dodge service tech told me, if they removed the EGR and the DPF it would help out the 6.7 immensely and probably the other manufacturers as well. Only bad part is it voids the warranties.....

 

[blackhat620]

re: New Cummins. I've been howling about this in more than a few threads. The 6.7 is a horrible motor- makes the Ford 6.0 look like the model of reliability.

Wonder how that 6.4 would do if it wasnt choked to death.

Both the 6.0 & 6.4 would be great engines if there was no EGR or DPF system, and that is true for any of the modern diesel engines.

From what a Dodge service tech told me, if they removed the EGR and the DPF it would help out the 6.7 immensely and probably the other manufacturers as well. Only bad part is it voids the warranties.....

Yep void warranty, EPA fines and the engine will not run correctly because you cannot fix the computer to forget these items.
An EGR system on a diesel is the worst engineering idea of all time, but it was cheap quick fix to an EPA manadate. EGR systems are great for a gasoline engine but a step backwards for a diesel. Unfortunately the current state of diesel engines are were gas engines technology was in the late 1970's EPA mandated train wreck. Give the engineers another 20 years and they may have the diesel engines figured out.

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

Wonder if you could just take all the elecrtonic crap off it and then covert it to mechanical.

 

[blackhat620]

Wonder if you could just take all the elecrtonic crap off it and then covert it to mechanical.

Not going to happen, fuel system is electronic so you will never eliminate all the sensors, game over before you start. BTW this holds true for any modern fuel injected gas engine as well.

 

[TexasNomad]

I know Ford made em for WW2 but I didnt think they made em after that.

Ford and a long gone car company named Bantom I think designed the Jeeps ford owned them for a while but then dropped them or sold them I cant remember now.

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

I think it was Ford, Bantam and Willys and they all built a prototype Ford built the GPW and willys built the MA and later after they got the contract they upgraded it to the MB. Im not sure what the one from Bantam was called though.

 

[blackhat620]

When did Ford have Jeep?

I know Ford made em for WW2 but I didnt think they made em after that.

I think it was Ford, Bantam and Willys and they all built a prototype Ford built the GPW and willys built the MA and later after they got the contract they upgraded it to the MB. Im not sure what the one from Bantam was called though.

Ford never owned jeep, Dan is correct in his posts. Here is a little history on the Jeep
www.olive-drab.com/od_mvg_www_jeeps_origin.php
www.olive-drab.com/od_mvg_www_jeeps_mbgpw.php3
www.olive-drab.com/od_mvg_www_jeeps_willys_ma.php
www.olive-drab.com/od_mvg_www_jeeps_ford_gp.php
www.olive-drab.com/od_mvg_www_jeeps_bantam_brc40.php

 

[Blue Goose]

Fiat to make Chrysler into . . . Fiat

The Italian carmaker expects to reintroduce Alfa Romeo to the US market and add many models that work in Europe. Many old US models will be phased out.

Chrysler is faced now with shrinking market share and few new models coming to market. While it doesn't disclose its finances, Fiat has said repeatedly it won't inject any money into Chrysler despite receiving a 20% ownership stake in the company's reorganization.

"They are going to have a hard time maintaining market share, let alone increasing it."

 

[LEB Ben]

Well now...there's a thought. Let's put something back over here that failed in the first place, and let's not do anything to try and enhance our investment in Chrysler.

 

[blackhat620]

Well now...there's a thought. Let's put something back over here that failed in the first place, and let's not do anything to try and enhance our investment in Chrysler.

Well not exactly, yes Fiat is not directly injecting cash into Chrysler (this is a wise business move btw), Fiat's agreement to help Chrysler (now a US government owned company btw) for a 20% stock interest is to "give" Chrysler proprietary technology in the form of engines and vehicles that meet both the new emissions and mpg standards. Fiat is giving Chrysler money in the form of technological assests & management, which is done in business everyday. Giving Chrysler cash directly will not help Chrysler build new efficient, EPA standards in the short time frame that is required. If it were not for Fiat agreeing to take 20% of Chrysler stock in exchange for technology & management, Chrysler would have been liquidated on the court houses steps. Fiat like any other business is in business to make a profit, they are not in business to be a charity.

"Unlike General Motors, which has continued to roll out new and redesigned products even as it entered and exited bankruptcy, Chrysler has had little to tout. Its most recent new market entries are the Dodge Challenger muscle car -- essentially a re-bodied Dodge Charger sedan -- and the Ram pick-up. The only new product Chrysler has entering the market this year is an industrial-duty version of the Ram truck. After that, a new version of the Jeep Grand Cherokee mid-sized SUV isn't expected until the middle of next year. Even if the Grand Cherokee is a terrific product, its timing is unfortunate, said Michelle Krebs, senior analyst with Edmunds.com."

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/16/autos/fiat_chrysler/index.htm?postversion=2009091614

"CEO Sergio Marchionne has said little about his plans to reinvigorate Chrysler since agreeing to acquire the U.S. automaker in June. But what he has said is telling....he acknowledged being chagrined by Chrysler's woeful condition and the discovery that its previous owner, the private equity shop Cerberus Capital Management, had done so little to prepare the automaker for the future."
www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_45/b4154022274064.htm
www.autoweek.com/article/20090717/CARNEWS/907179992

"Marchionne, who successfully revamped Fiat, appears to be creating a vehicle lineup that stays true to Chrysler's blue-collar muscle-car and pickup roots while adding European-style vehicles to attract a new, more white-collar customer."

 

[Likeastone]

Yuck, those cars are butt ugly.

Not that this would ever happen, but gosh, I think I would rather drive a Prius.

 

[O'Rattlecan]

Not that this would ever happen, but gosh, I think I would rather drive a Prius.

Blasphemy...

Ryan