Lining up the trans and motor

[thtniggey]

I recently swapped a seized 351M for a new 351M in my 74 ford f100 we cant seem to get the trans and motor lined up and it is four wheel drive so id rather not pull the trans does anybody have any pointers to get the damn thing aligned?!

 

[LEB Ben]

How far from not lined up are you? Are you accounting for the dowel locators? If you're getting hung up on the mounts/towers, I've found a BFH usually helps the persuasion...sometimes a pry bar for leverage as well.

That being said, a 351M shouldn't have been in your 74 unless it was previously swapped.

 

[thtniggey]

its less then an half an inch away

 

[thtniggey]

we tried jacking up the trans and everything

 

[F150]

Auto trans? Splines not lining up...try a left/right twist.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

I suppose you've got it together by now but maybe try these next time... ?

They're just 7/16" bolts is all.
Here's one "in action"...

When you're using those as guides and it still won't go together at least
you know it's something else besides a simple alignment problem.

Alvin in AZ

 

[Fellro]

Did the converter get pulled with the motor/ If so, you may not have the converter completely seated. You will need to split it and get it all the way in. You should not be able to get a finger between the back of the torque converter and the transmission case. If you can, you are not seated all the way in.

 

[thtniggey]

its still not toghther but i will definetly try using the bolts and yea the converter is completely seated though the motors just not going in even!

 

[BuzzGun79]

what i usualy do is raise the trans up as far as it will go,line up the converter studs to 12 3 6 & 9 oclock,do the same with the flywheel,then ease in the motor evenly,you may have to pick it up by the water pump snout to get the angle you need to meet the trans,then start a bolt on each side,draw it in slowly & evenly check that the converter studs are lined up & coming throught the fly wheel you dont want to bind it up.once everything is in line the bolts should draw it together with little effort.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

...you may have to pick it up by the water pump snout to get the angle you
need to meet the trans,then start a bolt on each side,draw it in slowly &
evenly...
once everything is in line the bolts should draw it together with little effort.

My experience with the guide pins is opposite (since the weight of the
transmission is resting on 'em) I have to put a bottle jack (and a short
piece of 2x4) under the rear end of the engine's oil pan.

x2 on the part about "little effort"! If the bolts need cranking down hard...
something is messed up somewhere! It wouldn't surprise me, a guy could
crack a bellhousing or mess something else up tightening the bolts when
there's something holding the engine and transmission apart. :/

Alvin in AZ

 

[Fellro]

Don't be surprised Alvin, because it will happen. However, you do have to crank on them pretty good to do it, but the bell housing of the trans will break.

 

[BuzzGun79]

well Alvin we all have our techniques,ive installed many engines over the years with the most recent one in my 79 & the way i explained it is the way it went in & mine was a big block,in alifted vehicle had it in within 5 minutes lined up & in the mounts.(IF) key word the motor & trans & converter studs are lined up.it will draw together.it must be drawn evenly on both sides to prevent binding.i leave everything raised til it is drawn up.once i get a bolt on each side started i slowly draw it up then get more bolts in it & continue to bring it together evenly.i do have a feel from my experience when something is amiss.& yes you can break a bell housing if it is bound up.if the bolts wont turn or get hard to turn your not lined up EVENLY.my advice to those who dont always change engines,get a buddy to help you.once you get it bolted together lower the transmission jack slowly,then lower the engine slowly 9 times out of ten it will fall right into the mounts or very close to where a prybar will get you there.be patient & take your time & watch for those converter studs to come through the flywheel,that also will cause binding if their not lined up.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

{snip :}

x2

I made those guide pins after having trouble getting the T18 back in on my
very first "V8 clutch job". It was my '75 F150 at 57,400k miles from new.

Guys in the S.P. System Signal Shop suggested 'em (thanks, Ed Flagler and
Wayne Yarborough and so I made a pair and the 360FE and T18 slipped
right back together quicker than the hacksawing of the two bolts took.
Had messed with it for 3 hours -at least-!

----------------

Picture 2 in post #6 was taken right after I pushed the ZF by foot up to the
351w's locating pins. See the dusty tennis shoe foot print on the bellhousing
where I was getting the ZF on the pins to start with?

Laid on my back used my feet and it went back together easy as anything.

The rear was sorta-supported (but more important held in a alignment) by
the transmission's crossmember and guide pins in the front.

I didn't bolt the ZF to its crossmember like I always do with the 360FE/T18
combination, I'll do that next time, the ZF's crossmember in the Gen 8 isn't
straight like the one in the old clunker and it was acting funny so I just put
a 2x4 under it... LOL

The rear chain was too far back for the hole in the floor so I quick (and very
sloppy!) moved it forward...

...it's easy to see how the rear chain "should" be behind the drain plug.

There's lots of ways to do this and for decades I just used cement blocks
and boards. Most of the time with a helper but many times just me working
at my own pace.

A T18 (without its bellhousing) and a ZF only weigh about 150 pounds so it's
not like they're all that heavy.

I know those are all boring details, but they kinda go with the pictures?
(and what's posted ain't only for the OP)

Alvin in AZ
ps- Gonna be rebuilding that ZF pretty soon so might have a couple more
pictures. Last time all I did was replace the synchro rings and fix the mistake
the factory made with the oil dam/baffle. Part 38A...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/etc/07-03c-09.jpg (big for printing)
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/etc/07-03c-10.jpg
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/etc/07-03c-53.jpg
...next time whole new synchros and new bearings, Rev, 2nd and 3rd gears.
pps- Also have a new clutch for the Old Clunker so might have new pictures
of that work too.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

The number-one thing I learned from replacing the pilot bearing every 20,000
in the Old Clunker is that once you get the transmission up and sitting on the
guide pins and its rear mount+crossmember... it'll slide right into place like it's
on rails! No kidding. Ok you might have to adjust the height of the rear of the
engine with the bottle jack (and its 2x4 under the rear of the oil pan) ...but
that's it. Get the gap the same all the way around the bellhousing and it can't
do anything other than slide right into place, right up against the dowels.

Automatic transmission owners experience might vary? :/

But there's -never- anything wrong with an automatic transmission that selling
the sorry piece of crap to the scrap yard can't fix!

YMMV

Alvin in AZ