Hi-Po Alternator

[godblessmud]

So i am gunna remove my (suspected) bad alternator ASAP and am assuming i'l be replacing it unless it somehow tests fine...

If im replacing it (which i may do even if its good) so i know Chris and a few others have done the 3G upgrade which is 200 amps. Well...i dont really want to pay 400 bucks for a new alt so im looking at 140 amp units and came across this one,
http://www.4wheelparts.com/Alternator.aspx?t_c=72&t_s=413&t_pt=3340&t_pl=3417&t_pn=POW8-47140

Does anyone have any recomondations or reviews about this or any other hi-po alt?

PS should a 140 amp alt be enough too A) charge my red top B) Power my offroad lights C) Power my light bar? D) all that and power my normal accesories? or should i be looking at something bigger?

 

[eco]

The standard 3g is only 130 amps. There may be some higher output specialty versions out there though.

It should not cost much more than 150 dollars.

Will it work for you? Well, you will just have to figure out how much current your add-ons draw. This is easily done with an amp clamp; just make sure you get a quality one that is accurate.

I have always had good luck with powermaster.

 

[godblessmud]

How much does an amp clamp run and how do i go about using it?

 

[Skandocious]

Scott-- the Powermaster that you linked to is not a 3G style alternator (the external fan is a dead giveaway). That alternator just just an upgraded version of yours.

For the accessories that you've mentioned, the 130 or 140amp should be plenty. I believe your stock 2G alternator is only pushing something like 75amps. I suggest you upgrade to a 3G. All the details for the upgrade + parts can be found on this website:
http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=75

I just went to the junkyard and frankenstein'd a few Taurus alternators together (they have 130amp alternators) to make 1 nearly-new alternator for $25

There should be a thread about it in the gen 8-9 section somewhere.

 

[eco]

Well, a top notch one would cost a few hundred bucks. A bottom of the barrol one would cost around 20 bucks. A decent one that will get the job done (plus future jobs) and last for a while should run around 50-75 dollars.

Basically, you would fire up the motor without turning anything else on and clamp around the battery positive cable that goes to the starter relay. This will tell you how many amps it takes to run the motor. If I remember correctly from the last time I did this, it's about 50 amps. Then, turn on something....head lights, radio, heater or whatever and note the increase in current draw. That increase will tell you how many amps that particular accessory draws and after playing around with this you should get an idea for how many amps you need. As far as the offroad lights, just clamp around the positive cable with them turned on. You could also clamp around the negative cable, but you will get a negative reading. Do the same thing for the light bar; clamp around the power cables. Take these readings and add those values to the values you get from clamping around the cable that goes to the starter relay with all the accessories running and that will tell you how many amps you need to run everything.

This is basically what I have:

http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+330.htm

Pull the trigger to open the jaws, put the cable in quetion inside the jaws, release the trigger to close the jaws, look at the screen and thats all there is to it.

 

[TexasNomad]

Thats pretty Slick I may have to pick one up. then..... learn how to use it.....

 

[subford]

Basically, you would fire up the motor without turning anything else on and clamp around the battery positive cable that goes to the starter relay. This will tell you how many amps it takes to run the motor.

This will tell you nothing unless you take the battery wire off the alternator as the alternator would counter any load coming out of the battery.

You could also clamp around the negative cable, but you will get a negative reading.

Clamp on amp meters do not read positive and negative just the amount of current the cable is conducting.

The Fluke 330 Series Clamp Meters in the link are for AC amps only and will not work on a truck.
Reference:
http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/333_____iceng0300.pdf


Most all automotive amp test equipment work by removing the cable and hooking the two clamps from the amp tester to the removed cable and the other clamp goes to the point the cable was removed from.

I own both the AC clamp on meter and the the DC inline type meters.
I also have the other cheap lay on DC amp meters but do not think much of them.

 

[CowboyBilly9Mile]

Does the clamp on feature on that meter work on DC? I thought they were AC only, given how they work (induction, like a transformer, and gotta have AC).

 

[godblessmud]

well i was peaking around under the hood getting a feel for the electrical situation and what removal of the charge cable/alt would entail and have come to the definant conclusion that my engine bay needs a massive bath of somesort before i can even tell what color different cables and **** are.

So SKan, you liberated an alt off a taurus? what year(s)? cause id rather junkyard one than get a new one...did you rebuild it before install or just plug n play?

 

[Skandocious]

I used parts from about 3 different Taurus alternators to make 1 good one with nearly new parts all round. I believe you can use any alternator out of any Taurus with the 3.8L engine and the big electric fan, from generations like this one:

http://forum.avtoindex.com/foto/data/media/37/Ford_Taurus_1992-95_30.jpg

Plus or minus 1 from that 92-95 shown above. Just make sure the alternator looks like one of these, these are all 3G's:

I believe most if not all of the Taurus's use the pivot mount style alternator. So if you've got the side mount, like I do, then you'll have to find an alternator from a 7.3L PSD. They also use the 130amp 3G but they're harder to come by; the Taurus's are a dime a dozen. If you find good guts from a Taurus alternator and a bad alternator from a PSD-- you can swap the Taurus guts into the PSD alt case (that's what I did).


Here is a labeled diagram of an exploded 3G alternator:

So before you start taking them apart-- read this guy's walkthrough. Read the entire thread and make sure you understand it all before you do ANYTHING, or you may end up toasting alternators if you don't take them apart correctly.

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114609



Things to look out for when putting together your alternator:

-At the rear of the shaft on the "rotor", there is copper material. This copper material is what contacts the brushes of the voltage regulator. You want to find a rotor with very MINIMAL wear/grooves on that copper portion of the shaft. If there are deep grooves then you know the alternator has lots of miles on it-- shallow grooves and you know it's fairly new.

-Once you've removed the 4 screws for the voltage regulator and take it off, you'll see two spring-loaded teeth coming out of the bottom-- these are the brushes. On a brand new voltage regulator, the brushes are maybe 3/4" - 1" long. Try to find a voltage regulator with long brushes-- the longer they are, the newer the VR is. If you can't find a fairly new one, they cost nearly $90 at the dealer for a quality Motorcraft VR

-Check the general condition of the stator, you can see it through the slots on the front of the case-- you'll see the spaghetti tangle of red/brown wires, that's the stator. Just look through the slots and see how dirty/clean it is. Over years of usage, the internal fan sucks dirt and gunk into the alternator and most of it gets stuck on those stator wires. If they're super dirty, you can bet the alternator has a few more miles on it. If they're nice and clean, probably a decent unit This test isn't ENTIRELY accurate because obviously a car that's been driven through a bunch of mud will have more junk in the stator. But the cleanliness will be a good representation of how much crap is inside on the rest of the parts.


That's about all there is to look out for. The alternator really isn't that complicated. Remove the VR with the 4 bolts, then remove the three case bolts and pull the case apart to reveal the rectifier and rotor inside. There is a large bearing at the front of the case and a smaller bearing at the rear. The rear bearing should be pressed onto the rear shaft of the rotor. When you pull the rear of the case off, the bearing should be stuck to the shaft. If it stays in the case-halve, then the rotor shaft probably got shaved down and you dont want that alternator at all-- toss it.

If you think the bearings are still good then go ahead and use 'em. If not, you'll have a tough time finding those bearings at the auto parts store (or at least I did). Luckily, the guy that runs fordfuelinjection also sells alternator parts. You can buy the bearings, as well as a voltage regulator and other misc parts here:

http://rjminjectiontech.com/?p=7

I bought my bearings and my charge cable from him-- very quality stuff. OEM quality.

Speaking of charge cable-- you MUST upgrade your charge cable, or yours will melt from the added amperage. I recommend purchasing the preassembled charge cable on that page that I just linked you to, it's very high quality stuff.


After you've built an alternator that you think is up to your standards, follow this walkthrough for doing a 2G to 3G alternator upgrade:

http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=75


If you've got any other questions just let me know-- I got pretty danged good at working on these alternators from doing my swap. I can dissemble and reassemble and entire one in about 10 minutes. Robert (radialarm) is also very knowledgeable on the subject-- he did the same swap before me and helped me out a bunch.

 

[Bob Ayers]

This will tell you nothing unless you take the battery wire off the alternator as the alternator would counter any load coming out of the battery.Clamp on amp meters do not read positive and negative just the amount of current the cable is conducting.

The Fluke 330 Series Clamp Meters in the link are for AC amps only and will not work on a truck.
Reference:
http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/333_____iceng0300.pdf


Most all automotive amp test equipment work by removing the cable and hooking the two clamps from the amp tester to the removed cable and the other clamp goes to the point the cable was removed from.

I own both the AC clamp on meter and the the DC inline type meters.
I also have the other cheap lay on DC amp meters but do not think much of them.

These inductive ammeters DO show polarity, and is what you need to measure high load currents on your electrical system:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=1477&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

 

[subford]

These inductive ammeters DO show polarity, and is what you need to measure high load currents on your electrical system:

I did not say the lay on DC type did not show polarity.
I said the clamp on ones did not and they are for AC amps only. Like the one in the in the link eco gave.
I said I have two of the lay on types like in the link you gave but do not trust them.
The inline type that I have will show polarity and it is a Sun. The Sun will go to 600 amps and you can hook a starter in line with it to show the draw. You can also load test a battery with it.

 

[dragogt]

 

[Old_Paint]

I did not say the lay on DC type did not show polarity.
I said the clamp on ones did not and they are for AC amps only. Like the one in the in the link eco gave.
I said I have two of the lay on types like in the link you gave but do not trust them.
The inline type that I have will show polarity and it is a Sun. The Sun will go to 600 amps and you can hook a starter in line with it to show the draw. You can also load test a battery with it.

Sorry, Bill, but gotta chime in here. I have one in the trunk of my car right now (Fluke). Can't call the meter's model number, but yes, it does both AC, and DC, and I've found it to be quite accurate. Being an electrical engineer for a big company in industrial services has it's perks for getting some pretty snazzy test equipment. I verified the readings on mine against a shunt and found it to be very accurate, especially if you make sure that the plane of the window of the clamp is perpendicular to the conductor being monitored. The only thing I don't like about the model I have is despite the accuracy at higher currents (20A +) I'd like to see it autorange on lower currents to make it a better tool.

A clamp-on AC ammeter simply induces a current in a winding similar to the way any current transformer works. A clamp-on DC ammeter uses an oscillator to apply a signal to the secondary winding, and relies on the dc to saturate the iron in the clamp-on core. The higher the saturation, the harder it is to inject the ac signal to the secondary winding. That's what's measured. I've actually installed permanent equipment that works EXACTLY like the DC clamp-on. The only difference is that it won't open, and the wire has to be passed through it before terminating both ends. Many different industrial control systems that need current feedback from DC circuits use this technology rather than old-school shunts, which require exposing the control system to whatever voltage the DC circuit is at. I'm not fond of working on controls that have 700VDC on them.

Accuracy will be affected mostly by the price of the instrument. Cheap price, cheap accuracy. Now, the next thing is, HOW accurate does it need to be? Do we need to know if we're drawing 50 amps, or if we're actually drawing 49.997624590001 amps? Also remember, the amount of current required to operate the engine is being filtered by the instrument. The nature of the beast. If you look at all things involved, when the coil is firing a spark plug, absolutely, that will be the time at which the most current draw is required. It just gets averaged. And, I don't buy that it takes 50A to run that engine either. 50A x 12V = 600W. That's nearly 1 HP.

One more thing before I get off my soap box. If the clamp-on gives a negative reading. Flip it over. It's all about the direction of current flow with respect to the orientation of the instrument. (Polarity) Just like your DVM reading negative if you connect the leads backward.

 

[godblessmud]

Truck is fixed

 

[radialarm]

Truck is fixed

Good job Scott! What did you end up doing to her?