basic gen 8/9 questions

[john112deere]

Trying to keep the questions in the right forums, hence all the threads.

Anyway...I may be shopping for a gen 8/9 truck sometime in the pretty near future, so I'd like to learn a little more about 'em. I've picked up a bit of knowledge over the years, but there's also a lot I don't know... So here's some questions (mostly aimed at F-150's with both 300 and 302 engines, ranging from '87-'96):

Transmissions: not interested in an automatic, and would prefer overdrive (so I'm ignoring all the auto and 4-speed trannys); are all the 5-speeds in half-tons the same M5OD (assuming it hasn't been swapped by the owner)? Or is there another 5-speed/different versions of the M5OD?

T-cases: how many different t-cases were used? And does it matter? If so, how can you identify the one(s) to avoid?

EFI: I know nearly all of these trucks are SD not MAF, and that MAF is often considered "better". But is there anything really bad about SD if you're not trying to get any "extra" power out of the engine? What about computers...are there any differences to worry about when looking at different year trucks?

Body/rust: given that the newest gen-9 is now 13 years old...my chances of finding a rust-free on in New England are slim. Anyway...besides the "visible" places they rust (rear fenders, front fenders, rockers) and the spring hangers...any common spots to check for rust?

Any other significant things that either go bad expensively, or model-year changes that are worth worrying about much?

 

[tomtoc]

well crap. i'm usually not knowledgeable enough to help people, but i read the title, and the first part of your question and was excited to help.

i read the rest of it and realized i'm still no help. good luck

 

[Lost]

Some 87-89 F150s have the Zf trans so I've heard .

Try to avoid the auto transfer cases . Not that they r bad they just don't always work (electrics ) when u need em.

The rad / core support like to rust out .


As for MAf . Its a auto trans thing for most of US . They do run better (MPG wise ) But SD will be fine for a street truck .
Good luck on search

 

[john112deere]

@ Tom: You can compare and contrast your 4.0 4x4 Ranger to your 300 4x4 F-150...

You already helped with the fuel numbers in the other thread...but what about just general comments on the two trucks- ease of working on them, comfort, availability of parts, etc. 'Cause a 4x4 Ranger is the only other "definite" on my short list at the moment.

 

[tomtoc]

^^You can compare and contrast your 4.0 4x4 Ranger to your 300 4x4 F-150...

You already helped with the fuel numbers in the other thread...but what about just general comments on the two trucks- ease of working on them, comfort, availability of parts, etc. 'Cause a 4x4 Ranger is the only other "definite" on my short list at the moment.

ease of working on - never worked on the ranger, can't help
comfort - ranger wins on ride quality, f150 obviously wins on seating/room. legally, it only has 1 more seat, but 3 guys ride comfortably in the front of the f150. it was tough to get 3 guys in the ranger at all
parts - never had a problem with the 150, never looked for the ranger
reliability - ranger wins, but it was also 11 years newer and 2.5 times the price
general driving - ranger was nice, small, good turning radius, but as long as i avoid the crowded areas in parking lots, the 150 is not an issue

maybe that helps a little

 

[Skandocious]

Transmissions: not interested in an automatic, and would prefer overdrive (so I'm ignoring all the auto and 4-speed trannys); are all the 5-speeds in half-tons the same M5OD (assuming it hasn't been swapped by the owner)? Or is there another 5-speed/different versions of the M5OD?

Almost all F150s are going to have the Mazda 5-speed (w/ overdrive). I do believe some of the early gen 8's had Tremec transmissions (T-5 or whatever it's called)-- but I believe that trans is only a 3 or 4 speed. You'll know it's an M5OD by seeing the 4 + OD on the shifter knob, or by looking at the trans under the truck, should have horizontal ridges like this:
http://www.evconvert.com/images/320.jpg

I do believe there may have been two versions of the M5OD but if I remember correctly, neither one was a horrible transmission.

T-cases: how many different t-cases were used? And does it matter? If so, how can you identify the one(s) to avoid?

General rule of thumb is that the gen 8's had BW1345's and the gen 9's had BW1356's; though I don't know the exact year cutoff. I've never heard that either one is better than the other... I think the basic construction is the same. Like Larry said, the manual is obviously a bit more reliable than electric because of the fewer components, but a properly maintained electric one will work just fine. The part that fails most often is the shift motor, which can be unbolted and replaced from the back of the tcase with only 3 bolts-- very easy and quick.

EFI: I know nearly all of these trucks are SD not MAF, and that MAF is often considered "better". But is there anything really bad about SD if you're not trying to get any "extra" power out of the engine? What about computers...are there any differences to worry about when looking at different year trucks?

SD is not bad. The basic idea is that SD has a static table that the computer uses when calculating A/F ratios, etc. Whereas the MAF uses readings from sensors to make a dynamic calculations about where the numbers should be. I've always heard that MAF is more useful for people who are modding their engines and looking for more ponies-- the computer will place nicer when it has the MAF to work with. On a stock truck, yeah the MAF might yield better efficiency but I think the effects will be negligible on a healthy engine.

Tell-tale signs:
SD = two separate intake hoses from the air filter to the throttle body
MAF = one single intake hose from the filter that splits into two before it hits the throttle body (with a MAF sensor thrown in there near the air box)

Body/rust: given that the newest gen-9 is now 13 years old...my chances of finding a rust-free on in New England are slim. Anyway...besides the "visible" places they rust (rear fenders, front fenders, rockers) and the spring hangers...any common spots to check for rust?

The only mechanical parts that really suffer are the spring hangers and the core support. Other than that just your fenders, cab corners, rocker panels, etc.

Any other significant things that either go bad expensively, or model-year changes that are worth worrying about much?

If it were me-- I'd look for a gen 9 before a gen 8. Of course I'm biased, but I think they improved a lot in the gen 9 trucks with the advent of some newer technologies. Not to mention you'll probably have less rust on a newer truck.

 

[john112deere]

As for MAf . Its a auto trans thing for most of US . They do run better (MPG wise ) But SD will be fine for a street truck .
Good luck on search

OK...that's about what I thought. Not something to worry about, in any event.

Thanks.

maybe that helps a little

It does- thanks.

 

[john112deere]

If it were me-- I'd look for a gen 9 before a gen 8. Of course I'm biased, but I think they improved a lot in the gen 9 trucks with the advent of some newer technologies. Not to mention you'll probably have less rust on a newer truck.

Care to elaborate? What "newer technologies" make the gen-9 better? Just trying to learn as much as I can...

 

[Skandocious]

Care to elaborate? What "newer technologies" make the gen-9 better? Just trying to learn as much as I can...

The first thing that popped into my head was the 3G alternator, and in my case MAF-- but that probably wont apply to you. Other than that, roller cam, SFI vs batch fire... Just a few examples, I know I'm forgetting other things.

 

[john112deere]

The first thing that popped into my head was the 3G alternator, and in my case MAF-- but that probably wont apply to you. Other than that, roller cam, SFI vs batch fire... Just a few examples, I know I'm forgetting other things.

OK....now we're getting into where I really need to learn some more.

3G alternator: does this matter even if you're not adding any electrical accessories?

roller cam: On all engines, or which? What year did they change that?

SFI vs. batch fire: Fuel injection, I think? Again...what year?

Thanks!

 

[Skandocious]

3G alternator: does this matter even if you're not adding any electrical accessories?

Yeah it puts out more power and it's more reliable. There were some major problems with the older alternators... Chronic failure problems-- that's why the 3G swap is a popular mod.

roller cam: On all engines, or which? What year did they change that?

I wish I could tell you the exact year cutoff... I think it was around 94 but I don't know for sure. Hopefully someone more educated will come along here shortly.

SFI vs. batch fire: Fuel injection, I think? Again...what year?

Again I don't know the exact year... I think the SFI may have come with the roller cam but I can't say for sure. I don't want to give you bad info.

 

[john112deere]

Again I don't know the exact year...I don't want to give you bad info.

No worries. Hopefully someone who does know will see this.

This is the sort of thing I'd like to know before I go shopping...but probably wouldn't be a dealbreaker either way.

 

[john112deere]

While we're at it, lets talk about tow ratings a little. I know it depends on all sorts of stuff, but roughly what would be the heaviest trailer I could pull with...say...an extended cab, short-bed F-150, 4x4, 5-speed with both the 302 and 300, and whatever would be the "most common" gears to find behind each engine. I know there's lots of variables...but are we talking 3000 lbs? 5000 lbs?

 

[Skandocious]

You could very safely pull 5000 lbs with those trucks. And if equipped correctly, maybe closer 6k. Kind of hard to read but the top right of this shows tow ratings from Ford in 95:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/...Brochures/Pickups and Chassis/10-DSC00675.jpg

 

[O'Rattlecan]

EFI: I know nearly all of these trucks are SD not MAF, and that MAF is often considered "better". But is there anything really bad about SD if you're not trying to get any "extra" power out of the engine? What about computers...are there any differences to worry about when looking at different year trucks?

Body/rust: given that the newest gen-9 is now 13 years old...my chances of finding a rust-free on in New England are slim. Anyway...besides the "visible" places they rust (rear fenders, front fenders, rockers) and the spring hangers...any common spots to check for rust?

In my experience, there is no negativity to not having a truck without MAF. The MAF is nice - but it's simply not necessary. Mine's been running around 15 years without it and it does great. The motor is solid as a rock.

Don't worry about the computers either. I've never seen one fail. It doesn't mean they don't fail, but it's not common enough to notice any trends.

With rust - rear wheel wells, radiator support, front fender bottoms near the door, back cab corners, and there's a small 'bracket' on the inside of the very rear-most part of the bed that gathers gravel, dirt, ect and begins rust from the inside.

Ryan

 

[Skandocious]

Don't worry about the computers either. I've never seen one fail. It doesn't mean they don't fail, but it's not common enough to notice any trends.

Jurgen's failed in his old gray truck But yeah it's pretty uncommon.

 

[john112deere]

Reliability is one thing...but what about ease of diagnostics/whatever for other components?

Are they all about the same as far as pulling OBD codes, etc?

Also- emissions equipment- any major changes in what is installed on the trucks over that year range?

 

[Raptor22]

Im gonna be the Gen8 guy on here. You will want to find one with limited slip (I like my 3.73LS) and a manual transfer case. That way it will be very difficult to become stranded somewhere. The M5OD (I have one) is a decent transmission, mine went 135,000mi before it needed mild reconditioning, and it didnt cost too much. The 300 is a great motor and most people that experience driving one, prefer it over the 302 (less power, but way more low end torque). Fuel mileage is good from the 300 (16-18 combined, 21 is my best) but nowhere near the numbers of the (carbureted) Gen7 trucks (mid20s). It tows my dads 4500lb boat/trailer really nice, though you may have to downshift on hills. In 1996 Ford converted to OBDII along with the other automakers due to federal mandate, meaning it will be easier to get a computer reading from it, however many states have stopped smogging pre-OBDII vehicles because of the lack of outdated machines to scan them, making OBDI more desirable. As far as interiors, I have heard people go both ways. I like the driver area of the Gen8 trucks better, but I like the dashboard of the Gen9 better. I think the door panels of Gen8 trucks are way cleaner than a Gen9 truck, but Chris hates them... it all comes down to preference.

Look at this cool Dealer brochure for a Gen8. http://storm.oldcarmanualproject.com/fordpickup1988.htm

 

[O'Rattlecan]

No huge changes on emissions to my knowledge. I've never had any PCV issues...

I'm trying to think of glaring problems, but there aren't any. Pieces just 'wear out' eventually.

Diagnostics are ridiculously simple with OBD-I. You can get the scanner at your parts store for 20 bucks.

Ryan

 

[john112deere]

The M5OD (I have one) is a decent transmission, mine went 135,000mi before it needed mild reconditioning, and it didnt cost too much.

Uh...I was (am) pissed that the 5-speed in my Ranger had a bearing go bad at 221k miles. I'd be beyond livid if I needed anything more than a clutch at 135k.

The 300 is a great motor and most people that experience driving one, prefer it over the 302 (less power, but way more low end torque).

I wouldn't turn up my nose at any of the engines they put in these trucks.

In 1996 Ford converted to OBDII along with the other automakers due to federal mandate, meaning it will be easier to get a computer reading from it

How is it easier? You can pull OBDI codes with a multimeter and a paperclip, but you need to have a reader for OBDII.

As far as interiors, I have heard people go both ways. I like the driver area of the Gen8 trucks better, but I like the dashboard of the Gen9 better. I think the door panels of Gen8 trucks are way cleaner than a Gen9 truck, but Chris hates them... it all comes down to preference.

I like the inside of the Gen-8s better than the Gen-9, but I think the Gen-9s look a lot better on the outside. Appearance wouldn't keep me out of either generation, though.