1951 F1 motor, trans, & rear end help.

[jes26201]

This is my first post and my first project ever. I purchased a 1951 F1 Ford pickup. It has no motor or transmission. It has a 6 volt wiring system. I plan to convert the 6 volt to a 12 volt system. Here is the question I need help with. I would like to drop a small block ford v-8 into the truck. I have read many suggestions and I believe I will go with the 302 and the AOD transmission.

What years motors would be good for this?

What years transmission would be good?

What gear ratio and what kind of rear end would be good that would fit on the stock frame?

Would it be better to get a donor car or truck for the drive line?

Any suggestions or recommendations would be appreciated.

I can figure out the reset of the build but I am not experienced in the motor, trans or rear end specs. I am not looking to hot rod it but I want it to run good and sound good with descent gas mileage.

 

[mtflat]

Welcome and congratulations on owning one of Ford's finest!

You should get lots of help on this....I'll watch for a bit before I ramble on.

I pulled the broken windshield out of my 50 today - tomorrow it goes to the glass shop as a pattern.

 

[jes26201]

Mtflat thank you so much. I am so excited one to belong to this site where I can learn so much from guys like you who are more experienced and two I feel like a kid in a candy store with my first build. It is a honor to build a piece of ford history. Thanks again

 

[havi]

Welcome!

Any 302 with an AOD already behind it is going to be a fuel injected engine. That said, they will usually be found in any Ford of the later 80's/early 90's. Without much hassle any earlier 302 can work, and Lokar makes linkage to mount the AOD's TV cable to a carb, so there are ways around the whole EFI thing. That said, there's really no magic pill of a vehicle to give you all the things you want in one shot. But not all that hard in the grand scheme of things. Good luck!

 

[Old Ray]

Welcome to the site. Nice truck. Here is one opinion, probably wrong and you should do what you want to do anyway.

What years motors would be good for this?

It doesn’t matter, for the most part you will have to buy or build motor mounts etc. Some engines have oil pan interference with the front cross member and require a rear sump oil pan and pump pickup conversion ,search the net for more info on that. Fuel injected engines are not for the faint of heart.

What years transmission would be good?

Same as came on the engine, unless you want a overdrive tranny ,…. don’t over think things to much.

What gear ratio and what kind of rear end would be good that would fit on the stock frame?

3.00 (better mileage) or 3.25 (more zip) to one, ford 9 inch, early ones are almost a bolt in. (never believe that about anything, ever!) once again mega info on the net.

Would it be better to get a donor car or truck for the drive line?

Yes, but truck and car have different wheel bolt pattern, so it would depend on the front suspension / wheel size so that you can match it to the rear.(two spares?)

Any suggestions or recommendations would be appreciated.

The best is to ask more questions when you need help on a particular problem.

I am not looking to hot rod it but I want it to run good and sound good with descent gas mileage.

Sorry, pick any two! (just kidding) If good gas mileage, (a very subjective concept) is critical you might want to rethink this, these trucks are about as aerodynamic as a brick wall. One thing you didn’t mention and I am not trying to talk you out of it (go for it) but what is your approximate budget and how much more then that are willing to spend? It can become an expensive obsession

 

[Old Ray]

Stupid thing posted before I was done !!!

,

,

 

[jes26201]

Well for starters I have been researching till my head is spinning and absolutely just love this project. My budget is as follows, I have no budget as foolish as that sounds I will be conservative but I want it done right.

Now for the transmission update on the AOD this I will look for and I will pass on information that found and maybe it can help someone else also. AOD 1992-93 E & F series trucks with V-8.

AOD - Built from 1980 - 1993. Intregal bellhousing and transmission. Not electronically controlled. 20.5" overall length. Good, medium duty 4 speed OD tranny. Can be beefed up to handle decent power. Very common. Rectangular pan like C4 but both rear corners angled slightly. 14 bolts on pan. When matted with 2.73-1 diff., speedo gear tends to be 8 tooth, otherwise 7 tooth. Came with wide and std gear ratios. V6 version lighter duty than V8 version but can be modified to equal V8 version in strength. Has 1 electrical connector to neutral safety switch. Uses TV (throttle valve) linkage & cable on left side to carb/throttle body. Proper TV adjustment is CRITICAL. Pre-88 models lack rear-lube enhancement - avoid these ones. Any post-88 version is worthy of use or build-up except those found behind V6s. 1992-93 E & F series trucks have the stronger version of AOD available. Most Lincolns and some trucks use a 1" longer output shaft than the Mustangs and other vehicles. Overall length 30 1/4". Shift pattern = P-R-N-OD-D-1. Gets 3 thumbs up.

Now this decision is now made I can focus on the tranny and the rear end. thanks all for the good advise.

 

[mtflat]

You mentioned a parts vehicle. That sounds like a good idea IF you're swapping everything over.

Wiring harnesses can get involved when you're using EFI (any 5.0 newer than '85/'86) so I'd use a truck for parts.

There are a lot of carbs and intakes for 302/5.0's if you'd prefer to go that way. Just make sure the engine you get is newer than '81. Ford changed the imbalance of the crank after that to 50 OZ. Your harmonic balancer and flex-plate need to match.

Rear ends - all 9" rear ends used in pickups from 1957 to 72 are the same width as your stock Dana. 1973 and newer are about 3" wider. BUT you could just use your stock rear end ( in 51 it should have been a D44) which is plenty strong and you can just buy new gears for your housing.

 

[BUCKEYE BOB]

I have a 51 f1 with a 302 & aod,i am using my original 51 rear-3:73
i am also using a jag ifs which fits perfectly in there I am happy with it
By the way welcome to FTF Bob

 

[jes26201]

Lol this project is starting to fall into place I think I will go with the 302 motor. You guys have given me a lot to think about and have narrowed my options. Now I will just need to think about the rear end. So if I am understand correctly I can keep my rear end housing and just change out the gears. I think I am really wanting a cruiser for putting around in town and having a little zip. I drive to work 17 miles on the freeway and would at least to be able to do 65-70 mph on the freeway. If someone could help me in putting the drive train final piece together I would appreciate it.

So I will go with the 12 volt conversion, 302 with the AOD transmission and now the rear end gear. I live in Las Vegas and would not mind to put ac in it. The upgrades I would like to do is also put power steering, power door locks, disc brakes custom wheels nice paint, carpet and keep everything else original.

Thanks everyone for the cool ideas 12 volt wiring and drivetrain is my priority.

 

[havi]

My '85 F150 4x4 had a 302 EFI, AOD, and 3.08:1 gear ratio in the 8.8 rear. It was kinda OK to start from a stop, but with any load, it was slow. I also had a '74 F100 w/ 302, 3sp. on tree, and 3.25:1 gear ratio.... it was the best of all worlds, IMO. So that said, an OD would need a steeper gear than a 1:1 ratio, such as my 3sp. A 3.73:1 for an AOD would be good enough, and would be the equivalent of a 1:1 3sp. w/3.25:1 gears. Each got roughly the same MPG. Strange I know.

AFAIK, the older Dana 44 such as yours had a coarser gear tooth count than newer replacements, and so that said, I'm not sure how easy it would be to do a gear change.

My next question would be; does your truck have the column shift, or floor shift?

 

[52 Merc]

If you've decided on the AOD trans, I'd keep the stock rear and see how it works. You may find it's just about right, and you can save yourself a whole bunch of work and money. With the low gears, your 302 will feel like a big block off the line, and with the OD it'll cruise at normal freeway speeds.

As for 302's, any one will work. The later blocks have improvements like stock roller lifters, but that doesn't make the earlier ones bad. Go with what you can easily and readily find. In the big picture, it won't make any real difference.

 

[jes26201]

The truck I bought orginally had a flathead v-8 and it was a floor shift. I just see a big hole where the engine and transmission were located. The body is in really good shape with hardly any rust. Thats why I decided to tackle this project. I am not much of a body man but I am pretty good mechanically as long as I am pointed into the right direction.

I never thought about an F1 before until I seen this one then I bought it. Its so cool to actually see the craftmanship that these old trucks had. I really appreciate all the feed back.

 

[fittyfod]

Im doing the same thing! this is my second 50's f1. This new project of mine was more intact than my first one which came with no engine or trans. I installed a 302 and C4. very simple install. My only sugestion would be if you plan on running the IFS like the Mustang II select the motor mount that doesn't span across between the frame rails. You will have to use the fox body oil pan which has 2 low points and a high center. with the IFS The oil pan needs to straddle the cross member. cross member plus a engine mount that spans across the frame rails makes for a pain if you need to drop the oil pan later. Keep the underside clear as much as possible. now my issue...

I need to convert my truck from a 3 spd column shift to floor shift. Has anyone any experience with this mod?

 

[havi]

Should be able to swap in a unit from an earlier F1, or any F2/F3, as they use the same steering box/column/wheel set-up as yours, but had a floor shift. As far as the trans itself, if you plan to keep the one from the truck, I'm not remembering if the linkage comes out the side still, or Ford used a different top cover, but I'm guessing the same applies as the column, a donor truck with the floor shift would provide the linkage.

 

[Jerodsford]

Hello all. Bought a 1951 pickup 30 years ago. Last summer me and my 14 yr old torn it down. in thinking about an engine I was thinking 302 also. may have one out of a 84 mustang. Any thought on that?
Quit honestly I have forgotten more about cars than I remember!
I also have a 400 out of a 1978 thunderbird with 56,000 original miles. I
was thinking this might be too much.

one of my biggest concerns right now (I am sure there will be many more) is converting front drums to rotors. in past research I understand this is not easy on this vehicle.

Thanks. Hope we can keep this thread going strong!

 

[Old Ray]

one of my biggest concerns right now (I am sure there will be many more) is converting front drums to rotors. !

http://classic-haulers.com/part/519/520/

 

[Old Ray]

Hope we can keep this thread going strong!

I’m just a old thread highjacker so take this for what is worth (nothing) but maybe if you started a new thread with you questions rather then adding on to an old one you might get better response,………and then again you might not!