another '47 1.5 ton project

[fattywithaflatty]

New guy learning to navigate the site. I posted questions yesterday, but wrong place. Mulling over how I want to build my '47 1.5 ton. Seen feedback on keeping original running gear vs a newer chassis. Is the original chassis that bad goin down the road or is it better to switch because of availability of parts? Seems like lots of folks want to repower with a diesel or newer gas. I'd like to keep the flatty(59AB) and beef it up with performance parts. Next is the tranny. Definitely want to upgrade the tranny, don't want to double clutch, but keep it a manual. What would work well behind a beefed up flatty in a truck that size?

I read through countryboys build.....great ideas and build, but my direction is to keep the flathead. I like a comment countryboy made...advice from his dad..."once you come up with an idea of how you want to do something, give it time...stop and think it over a while before you do it".

Would appreciate any input. All ideas welcome.

 

[mtflat]

New guy learning to navigate the site. I posted questions yesterday, but wrong place. Mulling over how I want to build my '47 1.5 ton. Seen feedback on keeping original running gear vs a newer chassis. Is the original chassis that bad goin down the road or is it better to switch because of availability of parts? Seems like lots of folks want to repower with a diesel or newer gas. I'd like to keep the flatty(59AB) and beef it up with performance parts. Next is the tranny. Definitely want to upgrade the tranny, don't want to double clutch, but keep it a manual. What would work well behind a beefed up flatty in a truck that size?

Would appreciate any input. All ideas welcome.

Here's a few odds and ends to throw on the pile.
First, don't worry about posting in the wrong place - this place is cool - nobody has a hissy-fit if something gets misplaced.
Second, decide what you want to do with the truck. Daily driver, work around the place from time to time, show truck, etc. That alone will answer most of your questions and give you a foundation.
Third - What are your skill strengths? Sheetmetal, turning wrenches, etc?

Specifics:
Engine - I'd keep the flatty also. I have a 48 F6 (two ton) project truck that I plan to keep basically stock and will use it for snow plowing. Currently the plow is on a ratty 52 F6.

Transmission - one option is Ford's original solution. Find a Synchro'd 4 spd from an F6 that was used behind the 254 six cylinder. That would be the easiest swap. Might have to shift the cross member and or shorten the driveshaft, but those are minor. Or most any 4 spd from the 60/70's with an adapter.

A T5 will handle the power output you'll get from a flathead, but I'm not sure how it would hold up to the weight of the truck. World Class T5 maybe.

Chassis - I've driven my 52 on the road a few times and it rides like a truck. My choice is to keep the original chassis and upgrade what I can. It's a lot easier than trying to fit your sheet metal on a newer frame, unless things like power steering are important to you. Anything you do will require some fabrication.
Tires: You'll run into the issue of tires and if your truck has widowmaker rims you'll need to find replacements - tire shops won't remount them. There are a few options, again determined by what you want to do with the truck.

Parts are available thru Joblot Automotive online or check out your local big truck shop - they will surprise you at how many parts they can supply. Unlike the cars, truck parts haven't been retooled every couple of years.
Even your local NAPA can get a good bit of stuff for your rig. Your 47 shares most of the parts with my 48 and 52 (I had a 46 1.5 ton for a short time)

This is turning into a book - any specifics I forgot?

 

[fattywithaflatty]

Thanks for the ideas and input. I was looking at the countryboytn '47 build. He opted for a new chassis, said parts availability was a big issue on a daily driver. I am wanting to build this truck for a daily driver. Are there any safety issues with keeping the old chassis as a daily driver? DOn't care about power steering. If I remember correctly, these old trucks top ended around 55 mph with the original drive train. Not sure if they were built to handle 65-70 mph. What do you think?

My truck also has the 2 spd vacuum operated rear end. Don't have any idea what the gear ratio is, do you? How would an overdrive tranny work with that rear end? Would the gear ratio keep it from reaching 65 mph?

I was wondering about the BW T5 tranny as well when I saw the major donor for them was a S-10 chevy. Besides, I'm done when it comes to chevy. I would definitley prefer to keep it all Ford.

As far as my skill level, been shade treeing it since I was 12 when I put a set of rod bearings in a chevy six in an old '53 truck I drove around in the field. Not much experience with sheet metal fabrication, pretty good with a MIG or stick, some body work, painting, electrical experience. Just finished rebuilding a 302 .030 over with an rv cam.

One other thing and the reason I want to keep the flatty. When I was a kid back in the late sixties my buddies older brother had a model A roadster with a V8 flatty and a six pack(I guess that's what you called three 2bbl. carbs). Man I loved the way that thing roared. All hail the flathead.

Don't worry about long replies. I appreciate any advice. My most recent purchase is Tex Smith's V8 flathead rebuilding book. Seems to be highly recommended. Thanks again

Ron

 

[mtflat]

The chassis is safe if you've taken time to replace all the worn out parts. I know a guy in our area who was pulled over by the Hwy Patrol out of curiosity cause they never saw an old truck run hwy speeds. He had put a Brownie overdrive in his 46 1.5 ton. Gear Vendors overdrive would be another option.

New tires, especially radials will do more than a chassis swap in my opinion. I haven't decided what route to take with my truck - it probably won't see too many road miles. You can buy new rims and tires in 22.5" radials - the profile is the same as the old 8.25x20" BUT they aren't offered in our bolt pattern so the wheel centers of your current wheels have to be cut out and welded onto the new rims. There's an outfit in Washington state that does this for the Les Schwab tire chain.

Sounds like you're up to the challenge ability-wise. They're pretty simple trucks and I've found most things that have quit working usually just need a good cleaning.

1948 F5 and F6 (1.5 and 2 ton) offered 2 different 2 spd rearends: 5.83/8.11 and 6.33/8.81 according to the shop manual. I suspect your 47 would be one of those.

Oh, the Six Pack was a 60's Dodge term as I remember sitting on top of a 440. What you had on the flatty was known as three deuces or triple deuces. I agree, nothing sounds sweeter than a flathead rapping out.

 

[Raptor22]

I think it would be neat to go with a newer chassis (Gen8-9 maybe) especially if you will daily drive it. If you could fab motormounts for the flathead that would put you three steps ahead in the game. That would be really neat.

 

[john112deere]

Thanks for the ideas and input. I was looking at the countryboytn '47 build. He opted for a new chassis, said parts availability was a big issue on a daily driver. I am wanting to build this truck for a daily driver. Are there any safety issues with keeping the old chassis as a daily driver? DOn't care about power steering. If I remember correctly, these old trucks top ended around 55 mph with the original drive train. Not sure if they were built to handle 65-70 mph. What do you think?

My "old car" experience is actually mostly stuff that's even a bit older than yours- Model A's, mostly. I've been 62 mph in a well-restored A, and while I wouldn't really want to run down a crowded highway in it, it wasn't "scary" at all.

Tires and brakes are the only things that would concern me with an old chassis like that. The A's will lock the tires with properly adjusted stock mechanical brakes...but not very many times in a row before the drums get hot and expand. Long, steep grades can be a little scary. Heavier duty drums, with iron bands, seem to be the best solution I've heard for that.

Like Tim said, if you fix your chassis up right, so everything's new and tight, you should be fine with the old one.

I was wondering about the BW T5 tranny as well when I saw the major donor for them was a S-10 chevy. Besides, I'm done when it comes to chevy. I would definitley prefer to keep it all Ford.

If memory serves, the World-Class T-5 was installed in some Thunderbirds in the early '90s. I can't remember, though, whether it's just availability, or something else, too, that makes the S-10 the typical donor for the swap.

 

[countryboytn]

...I read through countryboys build...

It's not my build, It's one that I ran across on another site and figured somebody else might enjoy reading it. I wish I had the abilitys and budget for something like that though!

 

[fattywithaflatty]

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. As long as the original chassis is safe to run 65-70 mph, that's all I'm looking for. My odometer reads 45,700 and change. If it's original, maybe not much worn out. THis truck spent it's life on a farm in KS hauling wheat during harvest, so mileage may be original.

Sorry Countryboytn, thought that build was yours, didn't read the fine print but thanks for the link.

As far as the T5 tranny, found something interesting on the VanPelt site. They sell reman T5's with a two year warranty, but warranty is void if they go in something bigger than a car or pickup...enough said for me.

As far as brakes, wonder if anyone ever sold a disc brake conversion that would fit that size truck? Anyone got any experience with that idea?

This will be my first experience cracking open a V8 flatty, wish me luck and stay tuned, I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions.

Tim, thanks for the correction the the six pack term, so it was called a triple deuce. I still remember my buddies older brother working on his car in the garage with the Beach Boys cranked on his record player....those were the days.

 

[Raptor22]

Zf5?

...............

 

[mtflat]

Zf5?

...............

I thought about that one, but if Ron uses the 59AB I think he'll have an extra half-bellhousing to deal with. I love that transmission - had one behind the 460 in my old 88, but I believe the ZF5 case has an integral bell cast on. The 59AB also has an integral half-bell as part of the block casting.

If you, Ron, swap in a later 8BA I think it would work. It's like a modern block casting at the back.

btw, the S10 T5 is desirable because of the forward shifter location, similar to a top-loader. The world class is common in V8 Mustangs late 80's and 90's as well as T-Birds and others but the shifter is on the back end of the tail housing.

Basically, don't give any parts away until you get your swap finished.

 

[fattywithaflatty]

Hey Tim, you are right, the '47 model 59A flatty has part of the bell housing cast into the block. I have seen websites where they sell adapters for flattys so you can mount newer trannies behind them. Is there such a beast to marry the ZF5 tranny to the 59A. the 59A is what I brung to the dance and I'd like to dance with the one I brung. You are also right about the world class shifter being at the back end of the tail housing. I'm keepin my parts coveyed up until I decide exactly what to do.

Speaking of the 460. I've got one in my '79 daily driver, all stock. It's hard on pusholine but man that baby can walk and talk.

 

[countryboytn]

My odometer reads 45,700 and change. If it's original, maybe not much worn out. THis truck spent it's life on a farm in KS hauling wheat during harvest, so mileage may be original..

Could be 145,700? Not sure if they roll over at 100k or 1million. Even if it's 145k, it shouldn't be that worn out.

 

[fattywithaflatty]

Been great brain stormin today. Thanks for all the ideas and advice.

 

[fattywithaflatty]

'47 update

since I posted last, pulled LH head and found blown gasket. Coolant had leaked into #6 and #7. Both were rusted. Got the flatty yanked and in process on tearing it down to send in for vatting and magnafluxing. Doesn't appear to have much ring groove at top of pistons. 45,700 may be original miles.

 

[47Ford - 1.5ton]

Let me know if you have any questions regarding a chassis swap.......

Mine is getting near completion with a P30 Chassis Swap.....

OLD 47 Chassis

New P30 Chassis (1 ton)