Who makes the "Longest Lasting" Truck...

[DOHCmarauder]

Like I said from the beginning, INITIAL stops are only a fraction of brake performance. I guarantee you F-150 brakes are a pulsating mess if abused. I cannot comment on GM brakes.

I'm glad you took the time to look up specs instead of listening to those idiot engineers (how on earth they told you the GM's were heavier is beyond me..)


As far as weight "hurting braking"; depending on what test we pull up, the initial stops are very close......so what's hurting the GM braking???

Weight also hurts the Tundra's handling??? Seems to trump the Chevy in lateral G's and the figure 8.

LMAO at a near $300 brake job. I can't believe dealers can look you in the face and charge $200+ to machine rotors. (that's any dealer, not just Toy)

$700 for tires in 20,000 miles???......Ernie, obviously that truck was riddden hard and put away wet which is really easy to do with that uber motor.


Other wise both trucks had very close operating costs.


BTW, at 20K my tires are at about 1/2 life.....haven't checked my pads, however.


At the sake of being redundant, I liked the Denali. I like the Sierra.

But in '07 and '08, the Toy had a larger crew cab, rear A/C vents and as you say, the "uber -motor powertrain. It was a no brainer for ME.

As of right now, horsepower is important to me in a truck.....it makes it a joy to drive both empty and towing.

 

[polarbear]

Like I said from the beginning, INITIAL stops are only a fraction of brake performance. I guarantee you F-150 brakes are a pulsating mess if abused. I cannot comment on GM brakes.

I'm glad you took the time to look up specs instead of listening to those idiot engineers (how on earth they told you the GM's were heavier is beyond me..)


As far as weight "hurting braking"; depending on what test we pull up, the initial stops are very close......so what's hurting the GM braking???

Weight also hurts the Tundra's handling??? Seems to trump the Chevy in lateral G's and the figure 8.

LMAO at a near $300 brake job. I can't believe dealers can look you in the face and charge $200+ to machine rotors. (that's any dealer, not just Toy)

$700 for tires in 20,000 miles???......Ernie, obviously that truck was riddden hard and put away wet which is really easy to do with that uber motor.


Other wise both trucks had very close operating costs.


BTW, at 20K my tires are at about 1/2 life.....haven't checked my pads, however.


At the sake of being redundant, I liked the Denali. I like the Sierra.

But in '07 and '08, the Toy had a larger crew cab, rear A/C vents and as you say, the "uber -motor powertrain. It was a no brainer for ME.

As of right now, horsepower is important to me in a truck.....it makes it a joy to drive both empty and towing.

One of the interesting things on a Silverado is that it can be ordered with no less than 5 different suspension setups, depending on what you're trying to accomplish. "Std," is self-explanatory, as is the HD version of the same. Then the Z71, which biases the handling and tires for off-road, the Sport Suspension Pkg, for on-pavement handling (with 20's std), and finally the Max Trailering package, which biases for HD Towing. The differences in all five are more than subtle.

All three handling comparison's I've seen have been with press-released Silverado's with the Max Trailering Package, a setup not designed for optimal skid-pad times. Unless, of course, you hang 9,000 lbs out back. Also of interest, all 5 suspension setups can be ordered in two or four-wheel-drive. Tell us what you expect out of the truck, and we'll build one accordingly.

re: brakes and tires. I'm assuming all the long term test rigs get used hard. The F150 ate through the first set of brakes at 10,000 miles, and needed rotors shortly thereafter. I seriously doubt the Silverado was used more gently than the other two.

Looking at a few different comparison tests, the results pretty much point to the same strengths and weaknesses in the four brands. The Toyota is most at home on the drag-strip, the Ford moreso off-road, and the Silverado is a good choice as a daily driver. I look at it much the same as I do a Camry- it's greatest virtue is the lack of any glaring flaws.

In terms of sales numbers, which is really where the rubber meets the road, the Silverado can be considered a success- even in this crappy market for pickups. Then look at GM's big SUV sales. They absolutely own the large and luxury SUV segments, with over 60% market share in large SUV's, and 65% share in luxury SUV's. Problem is, it's not a growing segment.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Sales numbers are very interesting (and very non-conclusive)


http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/otf0999.html

The Tundra has had the least dop in sales percentage wise YTD. And while it sells less than 1/3 of the big boys; it is only a 1/2 ton compared to 3 different GM weight classes and 30 Ford weight classes (j/k...LOL)

Drag strip numbers are only part of the equation.....those numbers also equate into towing performance.

Motor Trend stated the Toy is the quietest truck they have ever driven; so quiet that when going out, we take the Tundra over the Lincoln. (the rear A/C vents are also a factor.)


The '01 Ford now has 74,000 miles.......10,000+- a year.

The Lincoln has under 15,000......bought Labor day weekend '07.

The Tundra has 22,000......bought same weekend as Lincoln.

Maybe it's not scientific, but it's kinda weird when the family's favorite vehicle is a pick up.

 

[polarbear]

Sales numbers are very interesting (and very non-conclusive)


http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/otf0999.html

The Tundra has had the least dop in sales percentage wise YTD. And while it sells less than 1/3 of the big boys; it is only a 1/2 ton compared to 3 different GM weight classes and 30 Ford weight classes (j/k...LOL)

Duh- before the new Tundra hit the market, they were barely a blip on the truck radar-screen. 70,000 units/yr, vs almost a million each from Ford and GM. They ain't gonna hit their 200,000 target though, even with massive rebates and incentives.

 

[polarbear]

As a side note- we took in a '07 Tundra Crew Max Limited last night. MSRP is still in the glove box- $44,520 for a freakin' 2WD! Interesting looking at that frame, especially sitting next to a new Silverado. This particular truck has a lot of rust underneath- especially on the brake line brackets (?) and rear springs. given the Arizona plates (sold new in Phoenix), I've got to believe it's seen a little salt or salt water underneath.

I'm going to drive it today because... well, because I can.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Duh- before the new Tundra hit the market, they were barely a blip on the truck radar-screen. 70,000 units/yr, vs almost a million each from Ford and GM. They ain't gonna hit their 200,000 target though, even with massive rebates and incentives.

We already went over this:

The '07 sales target was 200,000 which was a couple thousand units short at the end of Dec. '07 but thousands of units AHEAD for the calander year (the Tundra was introduced in Feb.)

I have never seen a goal for '08 and considering the 3/4 ton truck was cancelled, I doubt even if there were a goal, it would be met.


On a side note, at 25% less sales YTD than last year, did GM or Ford make their sales goals even with their beyond massive rebates and incentives??

 

[DOHCmarauder]

As a side note- we took in a '07 Tundra Crew Max Limited last night. MSRP is still in the glove box- $44,520 for a freakin' 2WD! Interesting looking at that frame, especially sitting next to a new Silverado. This particular truck has a lot of rust underneath- especially on the brake line brackets (?) and rear springs. given the Arizona plates (sold new in Phoenix), I've got to believe it's seen a little salt or salt water underneath.

I'm going to drive it today because... well, because I can.

You're trying waaaay too hard!!!!


The LIMITED would be priced like a Denali or a Harley Davidson trimmed Ford.

The SR5 which can be ordered with all the bells and whistles if wanted (much like an XLT or LTZ???) bases for nearly $8,000 less or about $3,000 less than a Chevy!!! (4wd CREW 5.3 VS. Toy 5.7)


The MSRP's on the loaded trucks are extremely close with Toyota waiting a few months before offering rebates. Of course, previously when comparing Chevy, you couldn't even get the Top of the line drive train from GM; you HAD to get the $40K++ Denali......as with the optional rear disc brakes; very silly marketing.



Can't wait for your HONEST review after the drive.

 

[polarbear]

You're trying waaaay too hard!!!!


The LIMITED would be priced like a Denali or a Harley Davidson trimmed Ford.

The SR5 which can be ordered with all the bells and whistles if wanted (much like an XLT or LTZ???) bases for nearly $8,000 less or about $3,000 less than a Chevy!!! (4wd CREW 5.3 VS. Toy 5.7)


The MSRP's on the loaded trucks are extremely close with Toyota waiting a few months before offering rebates. Of course, previously when comparing Chevy, you couldn't even get the Top of the line drive train from GM; you HAD to get the $40K++ Denali......as with the optional rear disc brakes; very silly marketing.



Can't wait for your HONEST review after the drive.

Say whatever you want, for north of $44,000 I expect at least a DVD player, and 4 wheel drive.

So I put about 50 miles on it. Good power, rides nice- softer than a Silverado, actually. Comfy seats, dash is laid out nicely, but I don't care for the looks of it at all. Interior feels "cheap." Well made, but not high-grade matierials. Leather (Beige) already starting to crack @ 25K miles. I'd excuse that in a work truck, not for something with this price tag on it.

On the road, truck feels freakin; huge. I had a F350, and this thing feels bigger than that from the driver's seat. In traffic, it felt cumbersome... Had a helluva time parking it in the lot of a company I was visiting. Honest impression? This truck is physically too damned big for it's own good, and actually needs the front and rear park sense (nice feature, though). Visibility sux, BTW, in all directions- front, side, rear. I could live with it if I had to... assuming I could get past the styling (I can't). Nothing there that enthuses me, though.

We do have a bid from the local 'Yota Store, so it's going to a new home later today.

 

[89frankenford]

speaking about appearences
look at the bottom of this page. its a users and yahoo rating of new trucks' appearence
sorry wrong link... h/o

 

[DOHCmarauder]

Say whatever you want, for north of $44,000 I expect at least a DVD player, and 4 wheel drive..

So would you feel the same way over a $47,700 RWD Denali. ($49,040 with the rear entertainment system)????

The LIMITED would be $45,940 with the system.....much less for the SR5 trim.

So I put about 50 miles on it. Good power, rides nice- softer than a Silverado, actually. Comfy seats, dash is laid out nicely,.

If I had to pick one thing the GM trumps the Tundra on, it would be the dash lay out.....shows how some things are very subjective.

but I don't care for the looks of it at all..

Sierra>Tundra>Chevy..........more subjective opinions again.

Interior feels "cheap." Well made, but not high-grade matierials. Leather (Beige) already starting to crack @ 25K miles. I'd excuse that in a work truck, not for something with this price tag on it. .

Buddy's Dmax has had front seat leather replaced........one of the HUGE reasons I stuck with the SR5 trim was for the clothe seats.

On the road, truck feels freakin; huge. I had a F350, and this thing feels bigger than that from the driver's seat. In traffic, it felt cumbersome... Had a helluva time parking it in the lot of a company I was visiting. Honest impression? This truck is physically too damned big for it's own good, and actually needs the front and rear park sense (nice feature, though). Visibility sux, BTW, in all directions- front, side, rear. I could live with it if I had to... assuming I could get past the styling (I can't). Nothing there that enthuses me, though..

ROTFLMFAO!!!!

From the link of my earlier post:

Length: Tundra= 228" GM=229.9"

Width Both are at 79.9"

Height Tundra= 76.4" GM=73.7

Of course the Tundra does have more leg room......maybe that's why you felt so small???


I'm gonna pull an Ernie on this one since I can't find the data:

I seem to remember the Tundra having a smaller turning radius also....maybe a Toyota engineer told me????




Like I've said a few times now......the Denali was in the running till the very end. If the Sierra had the Denali powertrain, it would have made it a more difficult choice. But in the end, the reclining rear seats (did you check those out??) along with the other things I mentioned won out.....and all at a price that was around the same as the much less powerful (and slower) Sierra.

GM did, however, have 0% for 72 months where Toy only went 60.

 

[polarbear]

So would you feel the same way over a $47,700 RWD Denali. ($49,040 with the rear entertainment system)????

The LIMITED would be $45,940 with the system.....much less for the SR5 trim.






If I had to pick one thing the GM trumps the Tundra on, it would be the dash lay out.....shows how some things are very subjective.






Sierra>Tundra>Chevy..........more subjective opinions again.






Buddy's Dmax has had front seat leather replaced........one of the HUGE reasons I stuck with the SR5 trim was for the clothe seats.







ROTFLMFAO!!!!

From the link of my earlier post:

Length: Tundra= 228" GM=229.9"

Width Both are at 79.9"

Height Tundra= 76.4" GM=73.7

Of course the Tundra does have more leg room......maybe that's why you felt so small???


I'm gonna pull an Ernie on this one since I can't find the data:

I seem to remember the Tundra having a smaller turning radius also....maybe a Toyota engineer told me????




Like I've said a few times now......the Denali was in the running till the very end. If the Sierra had the Denali powertrain, it would have made it a more difficult choice. But in the end, the reclining rear seats (did you check those out??) along with the other things I mentioned won out.....and all at a price that was around the same as the much less powerful (and slower) Sierra.

GM did, however, have 0% for 72 months where Toy only went 60.

F*eck no, I didn't check out the reclining rear seats- what do you think I am?

Key word here- "feels." I parked it side by side next to a Silverado, and I think the Chebbie's actually a little bigger (Silverado measurements are without the rear bumper or exterior mirros- dunno why GM does that). Thing is, the Silverado "drives" smaller than it actually is. That Tundra was the opposite. I really did dislike the visibility- parking in tight quarter without park sense would be a pain. The Chebbie's boxy bodystyle also makes it easer to "place" all four corners. That brings us back to that damned bodystyle- I just can't get past it. I've said that before, right?

BTW- look at the entire rear axle/spring assembly/mounts on the Tundra, preferably when it's parked next to a new Silverado. It's educational.

 

[polarbear]

And it's not just me. Email today from a Corvette Forum member. Of interest, he own's a previous bodystyle Tundra and is very happy with it.

I was going to The Bass Pro Shop to buy myself a new Fishing Reel and Toyota was doing some kind of promotion. This chick out front told me that if I test drove the Truck they would give me a 15 dollar gift card for the store.
Well I had time so I said what the heck and jumped in the Truck which had 10,000 pounds of weight hooked up to it so they could show off the towing power.

I drove the truck around the store with some dude, took all of 3 minutes, and that was it. He asked me what I thought and I told him it was a nice truck but the dash looked like it was designed by a 3 year old. The control knobs for eveything were giant! Looked like it was made out of legos :crazy:
I told the dude the inside looks like crap but otherwise its a nice truck. What puzzled me was who in the hell approves the designs for the inside of these trucks? WTF is Toyota thinking? :smash:

vs.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

And it's not just me. Email today from a Corvette Forum member. Of interest, he own's a previous bodystyle Tundra and is very happy with it.

I was going to The Bass Pro Shop to buy myself a new Fishing Reel and Toyota was doing some kind of promotion. This chick out front told me that if I test drove the Truck they would give me a 15 dollar gift card for the store.
Well I had time so I said what the heck and jumped in the Truck which had 10,000 pounds of weight hooked up to it so they could show off the towing power.

I drove the truck around the store with some dude, took all of 3 minutes, and that was it. He asked me what I thought and I told him it was a nice truck but the dash looked like it was designed by a 3 year old. The control knobs for eveything were giant! Looked like it was made out of legos :crazy:
I told the dude the inside looks like crap but otherwise its a nice truck. What puzzled me was who in the hell approves the designs for the inside of these trucks? WTF is Toyota thinking? :smash:

vs.

Actually like the way the Tundra's dash LOOKS......reminds me of a sports car with all the individual gauges/pods.

The problem is the steering wheel, depending on adjustment, can block some of the view.....which is why I think the GM layout is mo' better.

Good thing your buddy didn't see the knobs on the left side of the GM dash.....they appear to be very similar in size to the Tundra's HVAC controls.


The faux wood dash actually has me in a quandry. Think it's dumb in a pick up, but I'm not sold on the plain silver of the Tundra either. I actually like the paino gloss black part of the dash.

Have seen some carbon fiber over lays that may work on the Tundra.

 

[DOHCmarauder]

F*eck no, I didn't check out the reclining rear seats- what do you think I am?

Key word here- "feels." I parked it side by side next to a Silverado, and I think the Chebbie's actually a little bigger (Silverado measurements are without the rear bumper or exterior mirros- dunno why GM does that). Thing is, the Silverado "drives" smaller than it actually is. That Tundra was the opposite. I really did dislike the visibility- parking in tight quarter without park sense would be a pain. The Chebbie's boxy bodystyle also makes it easer to "place" all four corners. That brings us back to that damned bodystyle- I just can't get past it. I've said that before, right?

BTW- look at the entire rear axle/spring assembly/mounts on the Tundra, preferably when it's parked next to a new Silverado. It's educational.

I read the "feels" part.......I guess it was this phrase that had me confused:

"This truck is physically too damned big for it's own good,"


I guess it's something you get used to. I have no problem jumping from my Super Duty to the Tundra.



I'll get right on that mount comparison......I have noticed mine falling off constantly lately.

 

[polarbear]

Actually like the way the Tundra's dash LOOKS......reminds me of a sports car with all the individual gauges/pods.

The problem is the steering wheel, depending on adjustment, can block some of the view.....which is why I think the GM layout is mo' better.

Good thing your buddy didn't see the knobs on the left side of the GM dash.....they appear to be very similar in size to the Tundra's HVAC controls.


The faux wood dash actually has me in a quandry. Think it's dumb in a pick up, but I'm not sold on the plain silver of the Tundra either. I actually like the paino gloss black part of the dash.

Have seen some carbon fiber over lays that may work on the Tundra.

I'm having a problem with some modern sports-car interior design too.

The Silverado's rotary dials may be about the same size, but they're not as obtrusive. Center stack has buttons if it's got Auto climate Control.

The faux wood an cause a lively debate. Our Dually is a 2LT (no wood), so it's more low-key, and in keeping with the "work truck" use. I like the wood, but I'm showing my age. The brushed aluminum doesn't do it for me (also scratches like crazy).

In any event, all aquired tastes. Be interesting to see and drive one of each with a few hundred-thousand miles behind it.

 

[Raptor22]

Actually like the way the Tundra's dash LOOKS......reminds me of a sports car with all the individual gauges/pods.

The problem is the steering wheel, depending on adjustment, can block some of the view.....which is why I think the GM layout is mo' better.

Good thing your buddy didn't see the knobs on the left side of the GM dash.....they appear to be very similar in size to the Tundra's HVAC controls.


The faux wood dash actually has me in a quandry. Think it's dumb in a pick up, but I'm not sold on the plain silver of the Tundra either. I actually like the paino gloss black part of the dash.

Have seen some carbon fiber over lays that may work on the Tundra.

Wow, that interior looks really nice, though is strikingly similar to:

EDIT: And also if you read that, it says that Ford actually thought about being able to see the instrument panel while driving. And that was 20 years ago, and here is Toyota making that oversight.

Notice the wood trim and placement of the headlight/wiper switches.

Maybe im crazy...

 

[89frankenford]

yup ford had them way back as well

you can't really see them but the knob controls are there. i honestly hate the way the new trucks dashes look as a whole. they aren't laid out that great to me. plus i HATE absolutely HATE the center shifter for the automatics in a truck....i love my bench seat..

 

[DOHCmarauder]

yup ford had them way back as well

you can't really see them but the knob controls are there. i honestly hate the way the new trucks dashes look as a whole. they aren't laid out that great to me. plus i HATE absolutely HATE the center shifter for the automatics in a truck....i love my bench seat..

Bench seats do offer more "head" room.........but the other 75% of the time I'm in the truck, the buckets are more comfy.

 

[john112deere]

In a full-size...Ford's mid-'90s 40/20/40 gets my vote as the best all-around seat in history. Comfy like a bucket on each side, nice armrest in the middle. Need to carry another passenger, though, and you've got room.

*It explains a LOT about the trucks on dealer lots today that a discussion of "toughest trucks" has a lot more posts about dashboards than trailers...

 

[DOHCmarauder]

*It explains a LOT about the trucks on dealer lots today that a discussion of "toughest trucks" has a lot more posts about dashboards than trailers...

That's because there is no doubt that the Tundra simply out muscles the competition.......the only thing left is spring perches and interiors.