rear axle seal leaking 78 4WD 150

[shortbed]

I'd like to hear how all of that goes. My machine shop guy was out today so I've got another day to wait. I'm hoping there is no delicate setting for the new seal and bearings, that there is a stop for them on the axle, because I can see if they are set too far in or out they will not allow for a good seal. I should trust more but I'm 61 and, well, how many times have we been disappointed.
Are you going to bend all tha brake line yourself?

 

[Alvin in AZ]

I'm hoping... that there is a stop for them on the axle...

There sure as heck is, Shorty.

It's all been worked out in detail.

When it comes to making things that involves bearings,
the bearing maker gets involved.

Only three years behind you in AZ

 

[MR.Ford]

No C clip on a 9" rear axle. The 8.8 (introduced in 1983), the WER rear axle used in some 1967/80 Passenger Cars, the 7.5 used in Passenger Cars, Rangers and etc. use a C clip.

Since the inspection cover has to be removed to access the clip, and the 9" doesn't have one...

I have my axle out Does the seal/bearing in the 9" have to be pressed out?

 

[Alvin in AZ]

I have my axle out Does the seal/bearing in the 9" have to be pressed out?

The instructions in the Ford Shop Manual sez to drill the axle/bearing retainer
collar/ring to remove it. It's dead meat anyway, should never be reused
(might lose a dangged axle!) and a new one comes with each bearing+seal
set anyway.

"bearing retainer ring" Ford calls 'em.

They show drilling it then using a cold chisel and hammer. Many times the
things will break while drilling. I drilled two little holes instead of one big hole
and the rings broke as I was drilling the second hole.

Here's a picture with both my used Ford9inch retainer rings in it, I was using
them for spacers to drive the bearing back into place on the ZF's main shaft...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf4.jpg
...was thinking this picture might be used for those things so turned 'em to
show the holes I'd drilled.

The bearings come off easy enough but they can be Dremeled if you have to
and then a cold chisel is used the split 'em. I had to use a Dremel to remove
two of the inner bearing races on the Ford9inch carrier.

Here's a picture of pulling that same ZF bearing off using a "bearing splitter"...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf2.jpg
...and two old rusty leaf springs as a base. LOL

But be doggone sure you don't nick, drill, grind or mar the axle in anyway.
Those marks can act just like the drilling of the retainers is going to act.
BTW, I wouldn't let a guy with a torch anywhere near my axle! LOL
YMMV on that.

-----------------------------

Make your Dremel cut-off discs from used/broken little hand grinder cut-off
discs. Use a 1/16" drill bit and drill a hole, mount it, then using dikes or line
pliers nibble-off the outer edges to get it close enough to round that you
can start it up and dress it round with an SiC block.

Alvin in AZ

 

[shortbed]

You know I was a little nervous about that guy torching the bearings off too. Then he wasn't in his shop on Monday and didn't return my call and I've been thinking his price . . . cheaper by half then anyone else might not be the best deal in the end. I can manage drilling into the collars, but I don't know if there is a dremel tool around and a cut off wheel on an angle grinder might be risky . . . but if I can get ahold of the dremel would you run those instructions by me again, or can I just expect to figure it out on my own, a cut off wheel and a steady hand?

And aren't those some pretty gears (your pictures). I've always thought gears like that were works of art.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

...but if I can get a hold of the Dremel would you run those instructions by
me again, or can I just expect to figure it out on my own, a cut off wheel
and a steady hand?
And aren't those some pretty gears (your pictures). I've always thought
gears like that were works of art.

Yeah, gears.

Specially alloyed medium carbon steel with a surface hardening job, yeah
gears are cool. The gear to the right (out of the 3 you can see easy)
that's cut "backwards" ...is reverse gear. It's "cut" reverse and is reverse
gear too. LOL If you look close behind the bearing-splitter is 5th gear
and you can see it's cut the same direction as the other two gears.

----------------------

Wrap masking take around the drill-bit at a little less than maximum depth,
then drill into the retainers/collars with confidence. When the first one
snaps on you while dilling it's gonna spook ya a little, but it'll be funny.

Dremel only what you got to, be careful if you do just stop and try the cold
chisel and hammer and then Dremel some more if needed. A cut or scratch
etc that is -lengthwise- with the axle is not near the same trouble as a
crosswise cut or scratch. Know what I mean, Verne?

Go for it, take your time (something the paid hired-hand ain't got) and do
it yourself for the fun of it.

You can do it.

Alvin in AZ

 

[Fellro]

I picked up some Lucas yesterday for a rig I am working on, IIRC the Lucas gear oil was under $7 a bottle.

 

[shortbed]

A friend came by the other day and said: "You need a Dremel. I got a Dremel I could loan you." This was before I gave up on my machinist. So I called him today and left a message. I hope he comes by tomorrow . . . with it. And someone said safety glasses is a good idea too.
Now I understand about drilling holes, Alvin, but I couldn't follow the 'little hand grinder cut-off discs.' And if I'm not able to put that assembly together does Dremel make a cut off wheel that would work?

And I loved that "Hey Verne!" commercial

(Make your Dremel cut-off discs from used/broken little hand grinder cut-off
discs. Use a 1/16" drill bit and drill a hole, mount it, then using dikes or line
pliers nibble-off the outer edges to get it close enough to round that you
can start it up and dress it round with an SiC block.)

and thanks for the note about the Lucas oil, Roger. I think that's what I'm going to use.

And Alvin, are you going to bend all that brake line yourself? and how do you do that?
And thanks for the hand holding, boy it makes a difference, doesn't it?

 

[Alvin in AZ]

And I loved that "Hey Verne!" commercial
{Yeah, I miss Jim Varney}

Make those from your used-up or broken .032"to .040" thick cutoff
wheels that come off your 4+1/2" little hand grinder.

Ain't got a little hand grinder? 8-/
Get yourself -at least- one!

Drill a hole through the best pieces using a 1/16" drill bit.
(that drill bit is only good for one thing after that, you know it?

Break 'em apart using dikes or something and make 'em sorta round
then screw those pieces to the little holders....

...when you see a deal on those get several!

Then using dikes or line pliers nibble-off the outer edges to get it
"close enough to round" that you can start it up and dress-it-round
with an SiC (silicon carbide or carborundum) block...

...that's Dremel's sorry little SiC block.

It's better to have a "rubbing block" like the masons use...

It's cool, you can make the Dremel cutoff discs 2" in diameter and
reach-in where you couldn't before or cut deeper.

Alvin in AZ
ps- Don't bother using anything other than Norton cutoff wheels
and grinding wheels, the price difference is more than enough to
make up for the quality difference. So, now you got Norton quality
on your Dremel! Cool huh?

 

[shortbed]

That's another work of art. I love the pictures and the instructions and I remember how clean that differential looked in your other pictures. I was very impressed. I've been spraying solvent and scraping grease and dirt off of mine for two weeks and it still looks pretty rough.
My truck is a work truck, carpentry, and most of this work is new for me. I've never gotten this deep into it. For me it's been stuff like changing out radiators, water pumps, fuel pumps; easy stuff. I did my front bearings a few months ago and that was a big deal. I have to tell you, when I held that axle in my hands, I felt like I could do anything . . . funny.
Thanks again, Alvin.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

I have to tell you, when I held that axle in my hands,
I felt like I could do anything . . . funny.

Cool!

Yeah, you can do it especially on your old-clunker, they are simple an' easy
to work on and now you've got the internet with access to pictures and
parts-guys and mechanics, and with -their-oversight- of what's said by us
do-it-yourself-ers, you got it made. We type out the wordy-part and they
jump in with corrections.

This setup is way better than emails or even face to face with an expert.

----------------

EngineBrite is my favorite for parts cleaning but spent a couple months (off
and on) cleaning an E4OD and ZF and finally fiNgured out that my "hick paint
remover" (used brake fluid) was the only thing that actually worked -good-.

Something about baked-on ATF that's tough to get off and I'd never messed
with it before. Brush the used brake fluid on one day (a few times) and hose
the stuff off the next. It'll take the paint off too tho. Never needed it for
any grease and oil removal before I ran across that baked-on ATF.

Alvin in AZ

 

[shortbed]

ALVIN! Wasn't there an 'Alvin and the Chipmukes' recording some decades ago where they shouted ALVIN! every 20 seconds? You're old enough to remember. So . . . ALVIN! I got the Dremel and the cut off wheel and set the axle on the work bench and cut a grove in the collar (bearing retainer) down to within a heavy sixteenth of being all the way through . . . nothing, cut another one . . . nothing, drilled two holes . . . nothing. I stood there with a friend and scratched my head. He suggested whacking at the groove with a cold chisel which I thought would come after it had cracked, but I tried it anyway . . . nothing. I started wondering: is this collar not so brittle? it cut and drilled easy, drilled really easy. Maybe it would never crack.
Then I thought that maybe I relieved pressure with my first cut, which was not deep enough and then the second one relieved more pressure and the holes relieved more and then I thought it's just one of those things that has more to do with the spirit world the with metalurgy.
But if I have to pick one I'm going with this collar just not being brittle enough to split when cut or drilled.
And I'm leaning way over toward letting the machine shop take it from here.

What do you think?

 

[Alvin in AZ]

ALVIN!

WHAT? :/

Yeah, I've been "Alvin the chipmunk" since the first grade and
I'm a troublemaker and I never followed the rules.

-----------------

Just how big of a hammer did you use with that cold chisel?
But it cracked, right?
If so, that's all it does.
You now just slide it off.
Wedge a screwdriver into your Dremel-cut to wedge it open
slightly and slide that baby off there. .

Alvin in AZ

 

[shortbed]

That's right, he would say 'Whaat!?!

Well I am pretty careful about what I do with hammers. I didn't hit it all that hard, but that's the thing Alvin . . . it didn't crack. I was waiting for a sound, an 'event' of some kind . . . all decked out in safety glasses and waiting and cutting and drilling and it never did crack. I got as close as I felt safe going. Even rounded a piece of thick sheet metal as a sleeve around the collar just in case the Dremel cutting wheel slipped. I got within let's say 3/32 of in inch of axle and no cracking (one cut front to back, one at a 45 and two holes just under 1/4 inch each.

and again that steel did not seem brittle to me, like I was expecting, not like a bearing race, you know? it seemed way softer. Could it just be a collar that was made out of different steel and wouldn't behave like other collars, a softer steel?

 

[Alvin in AZ]

...it never did crack.
...that steel did not seem brittle to me, like I was expecting,
not like a bearing race, you know? it seemed way softer.

Hmmm... I spark tested it but don't remember the results.
But yeah it is softer and it's under quite a bit of tension.
The longer it stays on there the less tension there is tho.
It's soft enough to drill easily and it's not case hardened either.

So, quit fartin' around and make it crack. LOL

Alvin in AZ

 

[shortbed]

Everyone has warned me not to nick the axle. I cut that collar within a heavy sixteenth of being all the way through and it didn't crack. I'm laughing, but the axles are off the work bench and the Dremel is back with they guy who loaned it to me and I'm looking for a ride to the machine shop tomorrow. I've got to save some energy for the next thing that goes wrong, which, if the last month is any indication, should be about six hours after I get my truck rolling again.
I'll let you know what happens next . . .

 

[shortbed]

Rolling

After talking to every machine shop in town (it seemed like) the closest and easiest option was a nearby auto repair shop. A buddy drove me and the axles over and the shop pressed off the old bearings and pressed on the new. We talked about how to seat the seals and he said some people use silicon (is it ATV?), but that he just used a little bearing grease, which is what I did. He suggested about 50 or 60 pounds of pressure for the bolts and I'm hoping I didn't grunt down too hard there (no torque wrench). One of the axles went in pretty easily, the other I had to whack on with a rubber mallet. Once I could see thread I used the nuts to pull the retaining plate into place (alternating like you would with a tire). I put a clear plastic hose on the axle vent and ran that up and through the frame to give it plenty of room, topped off the fluid and gave it a test drive. It feels and sounds okay and there is no fluid leaking so far. It's been an interesting project, but I'm really glad to have my transportation back.

 

[Fellro]

(is it ATV?)It would be RTV, but that he just used a little bearing grease, which is what I did. He suggested about 50 or 60 pounds of pressure for the bolts and I'm hoping I didn't grunt down too hard there (no torque wrench). One of the axles went in pretty easily, the other I had to whack on with a rubber mallet. Once I could see thread I used the nuts to pull the retaining plate into place (alternating like you would with a tire). I put a clear plastic hose on the axle vent and ran that up and through the frame to give it plenty of room, topped off the fluid and gave it a test drive. It feels and sounds okay and there is no fluid leaking so far. It's been an interesting project, but I'm really glad to have my transportation back.

Sounds like it went pretty good. It will be hard to tell if it is leaking without taking the drums off unless it is bad enough to grease everything up.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

Sounds like it went pretty good. It will be hard to tell if it is leaking without
taking the drums off unless it is bad enough to grease everything up.

x2
...and give it a month to prove itself.

Alvin in AZ

 

[shortbed]

well guys I've run around town several times in the last week and so far no leaks. The brakes are holding up and the axle seals too, so far, knock on wood.
I WILL give it a month . . . but no longer, after that I'm going to figure its made up its mind to deplete my modest savings in some other way.