rear axle seal leaking 78 4WD 150

[KBrian80]

Ok, so what do you do when the other side has a different type of seal? Is it fine to just keep two different ones? First side had the push in, this side has the seal/bearing one. I'm tempted to just put it back together and deal with it later.

*Well after researching that I will have to pull the bearing, I'm just gonna clean it up and put it back together until a later date when I can make them match. Seeing how easy it is to pull the axle, I'm not too worried about it, plus I don't know that it was leaking and was just gonna replace it while in there.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

Ok, so what do you do when the other side has a different type of seal? Is it
fine to just keep two different ones? First side had the push in, this side has
the seal/bearing one. I'm tempted to just put it back together and deal with
it later.

*Well after researching that I will have to pull the bearing, I'm just gonna
clean it up and put it back together until a later date when I can make them
match. Seeing how easy it is to pull the axle, I'm not too worried about it,
plus I don't know that it was leaking and was just gonna replace it while in
there.

That all sounds good to me, but.

The story you're gonna hear now is that after taking one apart they tend to
leak and/or leak worse. Your call.

I've had 'em sorta~do both, old ones not leak at all and brand new ones leak
a little bit, after taking them apart.

Check out the two collars just below the yoke...

...I drilled two small holes and they each broke while drilling the second hole.

It takes a pretty stout press to push those retaining collars on, no kidding.
I made my own out of stuff I had but next time I'm not going to mess with
that, I'm going to a friend's that got a press.

About 'em being different on opposite sides is an interesting one. Some guys
like the type you show there but others claim they tend to leak easier and
the other type doesn't look quite so strong but tend not to leak so easy. At
least that's what I gathered when reading about 'em all over the place.

I like the idea of the oil bath +leaky type like you show in your picture.
YMMV

They both track in the same place so there's no difference that way.

Alvin in AZ

 

[KBrian80]

thanks for that info. I decided I'm just gonna redo both when I put my lift kit on later this year, so if it leaks until then so be it. I don't have any cash left after buying all the other parts, so it has to wait. I'm gonna try to get another rearend and pull it apart, take the axles and replace the bearings/seals and have them ready to just swap in the same time as the springs.

 

[BKW]

BKW, do you agree with Fellro, that I just undo those four nuts through the backing plate and the axle pulls out . . . no C clip in the differential to undo?
Correctamundo.

No C clip on a 9" rear axle. The 8.8 (introduced in 1983), the WER rear axle used in some 1967/80 Passenger Cars, the 7.5 used in Passenger Cars, Rangers and etc. use a C clip.

Since the inspection cover has to be removed to access the clip, and the 9" doesn't have one...

 

[Alvin in AZ]

No C clip on a 9" rear axle. The 8.8 (introduced in 1983)...

And no "C clip clunk" neither! LOL

My '91 Bronco makes a clunk and I know the sound and feel the sideways
motion that cases it to clunk too. Like going over a small speed bump at
an angle will make both sides clunk loud.

--------------------

I haven't taken an 8.8 apart yet but... my plan is to take up most of that
slop with a "homemade c-clip shim". Might have to thin the original a little
to make the shim thick enough to be strong enough to handle it. Thinking
with less slop/motion the strength won't need to be quite as much?

But either way, I'll heat treat the shim to spring temper, depending on the
hardness of the factory shim and the steel alloy it's made from.

Or is the 8'8's axle end-play somewhere besides the C-clip?

Alvin in AZ

 

[BKW]

The clunk may be more severe than you think. The 8.8 is notorious for snapping off the pinion shaft lock pin.

When this occurs, the remains of the pin can end up in between the R&P. Not pleasant!

Getting the portion of the old pin oughhta the shaft is neigh on impossible. So, ya gotta buy a new pin and shaft...mebbe more stuff.

 

[Fellro]

The clunk in the 8.8 I am working on now was due to teeth being broken off of the spider gears. It worked fine otherwise. They don't beat on it either, so it is hard to know what exactly caused it. The c-clip only holds the axle in, nothing else. It is only stressed at the narrow area of the shaft, not the clip itself. What generally happens is that the shaft breaks at the narrow area, allowing the axle to slid out. Hard cornering is typically the cause of stress on the shaft there.

 

[shortbed]

Well the level of discussion has evolved way past 'my axle is leaking.' I guess that is part of what can change these forums from just a place to get a quick anwer to someplace that feels like a group of buddies leaning up against a truck on a saturday afternoon.
I've been too busy to do anything with my axles for a almost a week, but hope to get back to it in the next few days. I'll chime in when I know more.

 

[shortbed]

by the way KBrian: what is a ratchet strap?

 

[KBrian80]

a ratchet strap is what you use to hold loads in your truck/trailer. I just have a junk one, end only, that I used. I pushed the hook through the seal, hooked it on the lip and yanked. Worked great.

 

[shortbed]

what now

KBrian. I like your seal puller. That's great and I wish I would be able to use it, but I just pulled my axle and I have the set up you do in your second group of pictures. This is the first time I've ever gone after an axle and I can't figure out how to get the old seal off (it's between the bearings and the plate) but listening to what you were saying sounds like I don't wanna know. Am I going to have a difficult time getting this old seal off and another one on . . . ?

 

[Fellro]

Best option is to take it to a shop with a press, and have them press it off and install the new one for you.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

Best option is to take it to a shop with a press, and have
them press it off and install the new one for you.

x2

Second best option...
If you want to, you could take the whole thing apart yourself and
get it all cleaned up and ready to put back together, then all you'd
need are the parts and the press.

Drill into the retaining collar and it'll snap open and come off easy.
The bearing races might need a Dremel with a grinding disc.
The trick is to not scratch the axle at all tho.

Alvin in AZ

 

[shortbed]

it looks like a pressing matter

I really hate puns, but I couldn't resist.
Fellro and Alvin . . . thanks for the responses. I called a couple of parts stores and asked them about machine shops and found two in town they thought could do the work, but I read somewhere that pressing off, then pressing on the bearings again often messes them up, breaks them or makes them more likely to leak and then the parts stores all told me I would have to remove the seal for them to know which replacement seal to sell me.
That means: machine shop . . . remove bearing . . . parts store with seal . . . back to machine shop with seal . . .something I would like to avoid.
What do you guys think?
Can most machine shops do a good job with this?
Can I expect the new seal to hold?
Could I buy all the possible seals and just return the unused ones?
And Alvin, I got a laugh out of the option of buying a press. If you knew how few pennies there are in the jar.

 

[Fellro]

The design requires press work, so not sure why they would say it messes them up. I think what you are afraid of is the bearings being reused. If you are messing with it, might as well put new ones on. Had a situation with a tractor steering bearing. The original design was to have a narrow front, and wide front was a change from the original setup. It has a massive bearing, which cost $70 and had to be ordered. Got lucky and they were able to get the being off in good shape, and replaced the seal.

You could get the variations and have it along with and take back the ones you don't need, we have customers do that all the time. The main thing about new seals is that they fit properly. Have had some occasions where for whatever reason, the aftermarket seal was wrong, and the factory ones were the only ones that got it right, but that is generally rare, but can happen.

 

[shortbed]

You know I was figuring on reusing the bearings. Mostly I thought: why replace a good bearing, but I have taken some time off to work on a non-paying project and cash is like hen’s teeth around here, so that was part of my thinking too. But if you are confident reusing the old bearing would be a mistake I’ll keep my fingers crossed on what the cost will be and try for that.
Then, I could see, the way the race sits in the axle housing with that little groove for the seal around it, that if that seal did not seat itself just right . . . I’d be tearing it apart again. I can see reinstalling the axle is going to require just the right touch and good fortune.
Do you have any suggestions about the seal or installation:
Brand of seal or seller
Should I grease the seal or do anything to make reinstallation more likely to succeed?

I see you’ve got the same truck, ‘cept for the engine: 78, 4wheel drive, short bed. I’ve got the straight six. It’s my work truck and transportation too. It has been a very solid truck for me and I've spent many an hour imagining all the nice things I would like to do for it.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

The design requires press work, so not sure why they would say it messes
them up. I think what you are afraid of is the bearings being reused. {yeah}
If you are messing with it, might as well put new ones on.

x2!

"ps-"
Timken makes the bearings and seals in sets, my Ford9inch used a "set 20"
...if I remember right. They aren't expensive. And the pressing will be cheap
if all they have to do is press the new stuff on. Cleaning it up etc takes time
and effort is why I want you to take it all apart and clean it up and have it
all ready to go.

Had a situation with a tractor steering bearing. The original design was to
have a narrow front, and wide front was a change from the original setup.
It has a massive bearing, which cost $70 and had to be ordered. Got lucky
and they were able to get the being off in good shape, and replaced the
seal.

Cool one.

Tinkerers run into that situation quite a bit trying to fix oddball stuff.
None of which is as important as a tractor, more like a toaster that way.

You could get the variations and have it along with and take back the ones
you don't need, we have customers do that all the time.

Yeah I've done that myself a bunch of times over the years!
There's been at least that many times where I should've and didn't.
That's for when you don't have it apart yet. This stuff is apart already.

He can remove the collars and bearings (or not) and take the cleaned up
pieces with him to the store.

The main thing about new seals is that they fit properly. Have had some
occasions where for whatever reason, the aftermarket seal was wrong,
and the factory ones were the only ones that got it right, but that is
generally rare, but can happen.

Not sure if I've ran into that one yet, but it'll suck when I do and know it. :/

I didn't mean buy a press.

Shorty, my press looks like a double wide trailer, 24x24x4" cement block
and a bottle jack. I messed around and made a really tall one to press
the new axle bearings and collars on ...and don't intend to ever do that
again! LOL

Alvin in AZ

 

[Fellro]

If you have a torch, you could warm the collar a bit, and maybe get it to work off as well. It will be tricky, as you have no angle to hit with very effectively. National and Timken are two good brands to get,

 

[Alvin in AZ]

If you have a torch, you could warm the collar a bit,
and maybe get it to work off as well. It will be tricky,
as you have no angle to hit with very effectively.

But, new axle-retaining-collars come with the bearing sets, right?

Removing it by pulling it will be a whole nuther story too! LOL My 8 ton
jack wouldn't push the collar on enough to even get it started good! ...it's
that tight. It's like a steel rubber-band. LOL

The 20 ton jack -bent- the 1+1/4" pipe and just barely started the collar.
Just happen to have some 2" medium carbon steel pipe that could handle it.
I believe the 1+1/4" pipe would handle it fine if everything was real-straight.

But that (axle retaining) collar is meant to be on there to -stay-.
Typically just drilling a hole into will break it, it's under so much tension.
No where close to the tension (or compression) a bearing race is under.

It's the only part like it I've ever messed with on anything.

Alvin in AZ

 

[BKW]

Once the bearing retainer (collar) is removed, it should not be reused agaoin.