Radiator Swap

[blackhat620]

I've taken long trips in my truck in the dead on of the west Texas heat and stop and go driving in the 112 degree summers and never have I had a heating issue, thats my proof..

Tex that is great, and for your application running a small block and not towing it is working for you. Swap to a big block, moderate to heavy towing and the numbers can easily change. Also if your truck came with the larger raditor option from the factory, the small block will not get close to over powering it, as the upgraded cooling package is generally the big block radiator installed in the small block application.

 

[blackhat620]

Just something i thought of, but what about switching to a colder thermostat? Would that help things along? Just a hair brained idea....

Yes and No.

With older non-computer controlled vehicles then yes generally a cooler T-stat often helps since the coolant flow to the radiator happens sooner(FYI Removing the t-stat completely actually increases the coolant temperature as the coolant flow is now to rapid and there is not sufficeint heat transfer taking place in the radiator). With race engines or street rods you have to play with the t-stat to get the proper temp that works to achieve the best performance from your custom built modded engine.

With computer controlled vehicles most are designed around a 195F t-stat and using a cooler t-stat does not let the engine reach operating temperature as efficeintly so the computer commands the cold engine strategy which reduces performance. This is all tied to the design of the emissions systems in place on computer controlled vehicles.

I see your points, and you make them well.
I will agree to disagree with you, but coming from different places in the country with different uses for our vehicles. It is expected to happen.
Like i said, it is not for everybody, but for some people it COULD be an upgrade. I dont belive magazie "hype" but seeing dyno numbers, then talking to people with real world expirence, i think in the right applications its a good idea.

There is the million dollar answer, " The right application its a good idea", the key is beta testing at your expense to find the "right application".

In the 1960's & 70's the auto manufactures started building there test facilities in the desert SW, in order to properly test there vehicles for the extreme months on end 110F temps we see. Prior to this the Detroit automakers could not understand the heat related failures there vehicles were seeing in high numbers. Warranty heat related repairs were very high. This is what led to the advancements in cooling system designs and electric fuel pumps to eliminate vapor lock problems you see implemented on OEM vehicles today. In this part of the country radiator hoses, belts and other underhood rubber components have a life span of about 12-18 months. Batteries last about 24 months do to the extreme heat.

 

[Truckin4life]

In your part of the country, i dont think i would even consider it...

But use your brain, if you think it through enough and get your facts straight you MIGHT be able to save your self some money.

In bens case, i would swap in the electric fan. Keep ALL the parts for the belt driven fan, incase i wanted to go back. But a shot at 20 ponies for 50 bucks i cant complain.

 

[LEB Ben]

If I can do it for $50, I guess there's no harm in trying it at least. You guys over here have my head spinning, so much to try...just not enough time. HAHA.

 

[Truckin4life]

SO much to do, never enough time. Hey welcome to my life...

I go to work, to recuperate.

 

[blackhat620]

Wow...definitely learning alot in this debate...I hope I didn't open a can of worms with this one. This kinda seems like one of those "which is better...Holley or Eddy" debates. Since it can hit 100+ temps in NC during the summer and I do tow and I do idle quite a bit through Charlotte (when I'm home) or Knoxville (when I'm at school) traffic, I think I'll stick with my setup the way it is now and go with the biggest radiator I can afford...which right now is the Super Cooler from JBG. Thanks for all the info fellas.

Debate is good, don't let it keep you from asking questions. Debate leads to information so that you can consider everything as it applies to your use & application and then make an informed decision.

Since you seem to be fairly handy fabbing and fitting parts, IMO i would strongly look at fitting a 1980-84 cross flow radiator from an F-series or bronco into your 1979. The radiator would be more efficient and the cost is similar to the OEM Downflow 79 radiator. See if you can find on at a junk yard you could measure and then see if it would be a feasible swap for your 79.
Also that "Super Cooler" from JBG is the factory large radiator package that was installed in the 78-79 bronco with 400, auto, A/C and desert cool from the factory.
Many parts houses carry this radiator show shop prices, to get the best deal if you go this route.
The Proliance 436007 is that exact radiator.
www.pliii.com/catalog?searcher[year...er[part_type]=Radiator&search_vehicles=SEARCH

 

[blackhat620]

SO much to do, never enough time.

Or money

 

[LEB Ben]

Alright, thanks again fellas. I'll have to go back through and reread this stuff tomorrow when I'm functioning a little better. I can't get over how helpful the folks are here and how they don't allow debates to turn into pissing matches.

 

[Truckin4life]

hey blackhat, my idea is better, i piss farther so i win! just messin man


Ben:
If you want to do a complete hook up of the taurus fan it will be about 100 dollars,

Just the fan on a switch or on a temp sensor will be less. "like 50"
here is a write up to give you an idea. http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/02/electricfan/

I think i stole that link from one of skan's posts...

 

[blackhat620]

And as for the added electrical draw offsetting the gained horsepower? What a crock... My fan is turned OFF for about 99.9% of the time that my truck is driving. Any speeds above about 30mph don't require any fan at all, and lets face it-- most driving happens at 30+.

Yes the mechanical fans have a clutch which disengages when the fan isn't needed, but there is still friction and drag in that clutch assembly.

Bottom line-- e-fan = increased HP and possibly mileage. As for inferior cooling-- show me numbers to prove it. Until then, I have my own personal proof that the efan provides more cooling than my clutch fan EVER did. My proof? PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with BOTH types of fans on the same exact truck (ie-- all other variables held constant).

Chris if it works in your application great!. As far as driving 99.9% of the time above 30mph for extended periods and running with the fan off most of the time, it may work in the temprate New Castle & Davis, but in rush hour LA or Phoenix traffic i would like to get up to 30mph even occasionally, let alone for extended periods.

You have access to alternator load charts, as the load draw goes up the Hp needed to run the alternator goes up exponetially. Yes you are getting some increase Hp by eliminating a belt driven fan, but it will not be 20 Hp when you deduct the loss caused by the increased load on the alternator.

 

[blackhat620]

hey blackhat, my idea is better, i piss farther so i win! just messin man


Ben:
If you want to do a complete hook up of the taurus fan it will be about 100 dollars,

Just the fan on a switch or on a temp sensor will be less. "like 50"
here is a write up to give you an idea. http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/02/electricfan/

I think i stole that link from one of skan's posts...

It's all good. I am not into who wins, just want Ben to have all the information so he can choose what works best for him. Even if he goes with the electric fan setup i would still try and install a crossflow radiator as they are way more efficeint than a downflow.

 

[Truckin4life]

i see your point here as well. But chris wont notice that much of a difference since he is running a 3g alt.
Yea its not about who wins with me either.
I like to make sure that the other person(s) understand what i am saying.... Just to make my points clear, even if they dont agree and even if there wrong, if im wrong i want to know im wrong and why im wrong. This is how we learn things. By looking dumb and learning the hard way... :d

 

[blackhat620]

i see your point here as well. But chris wont notice that much of a difference since he is running a 3g alt.
Yea its not about who wins with me either.
I like to make sure that the other person(s) understand what i am saying.... Just to make my points clear, even if they dont agree and even if there wrong, if im wrong i want to know im wrong and why im wrong. This is how we learn things. By looking dumb and learning the hard way... :d

Yes Chris upgraded to the 3G alternator because he needed more power, and many elelctric fan installs require a larger alternator to be installed so now you have a double upgrade and increased cost.

As far as the larger alternator install, does not matter if it is a 3G or any other, the higher the output of the alternator the greater the load on the engine and the more Hp required to turn the alternator. Remember an alternator is a big magnet and as the power required increases the magnatic force is stronger so it takes more power to spin it. This is not a linear Hp increase requirement it is more exponential.

 

[Skandocious]

Chris if it works in your application great!. As far as driving 99.9% of the time above 30mph for extended periods and running with the fan off most of the time, it may work in the temprate New Castle & Davis, but in rush hour LA or Phoenix traffic i would like to get up to 30mph even occasionally, let alone for extended periods.

You have access to alternator load charts, as the load draw goes up the Hp needed to run the alternator goes up exponetially. Yes you are getting some increase Hp by eliminating a belt driven fan, but it will not be 20 Hp when you deduct the loss caused by the increased load on the alternator.

Can't argue with this post. Fan works overtime in stop and go traffic but it has no time keeping up. Low speed keeps up good but high speed can only be used in short bursts cuz it actually makes my engine COLDER than it's regular operating temperature

 

[Truckin4life]

Ah yes, this is true...
So i guess in all reality unless your fan runs all the darn time like mine does there really aint much of a upgrade then...

I will still install it for the pure ability to be able to turn it off when i play in the mud...

 

[Skandocious]

By looking dumb and learning the hard way... :d

And boy are you GOOOOOOD at it!!

 

[Truckin4life]

Yes but what you dont know, is that by saying that, your REALLY saying that i am smarter than you, since i screw up all the time and learn from my mistakes, i am a damn genious.

 

[Skandocious]

Yes but what you dont know, is that by saying that, your REALLY saying that i am smarter than you, since i screw up all the time and learn from my mistakes, i am a damn genious.

NO WAY! I ASK THE DUMBEST QUESTIONS!! I'M THE STARTEST CUZ I'M THE DUMBEST!!




....right?

 

[Truckin4life]

Wrong!
You would be the smartest if you made the most mistakes...
But you cant fix stupid

 

[TexasNomad]

Well then I guess I'm just crap outta luck.