Radiator Swap

[blackhat620]

Why don't you seem them?

Because electric fans that will fit on the radiator will not provide enough air flow in high heat applications.

 

[TexasNomad]

Hmm I guess for some applications that you need the air flow that a large blade fan can make.
But most of our trucks don't put out the kind of heat, the monster ford that prolator? he has Efans on his truck, the dessert racers have Efans most rock crawlers run then and the Extreme hill climbers i've seen run them, on large diesel engines that need more air flow around the engine you can't run them.

 

[blackhat620]

Things that will make a belt driven water pump fan system not cool properly:

Removing or modifying the shroud
Installing a flex fan in lieu of the rigid clutch fan
Worn out fan clutch
Installing aftermarket pulley systems that slow the fan RPM's to try an increase Hp.
Worn-slipping belts

 

[blackhat620]

Hmm I guess for some applications that you need the air flow that a large blade fan can make.
But most of our trucks don't put out the kind of heat, the monster ford that prolator? he has Efans on his truck, the dessert racers have Efans most rock crawlers run then and the Extreme hill climbers i've seen run them, on large diesel engines that need more air flow around the engine you can't run them.

Lets take these one at a time:

Proilators truck is in the PNW, not the desert SW

Any race truck/car does not really need much of a fan because the natural air flow do to high speed provides more than adequate air flow. Race vehicles do not spend much time idling in traffic.

Rock crawlers run them for a couple of reasons, ability to turn them off when crossing water, and less weight. Rock crawlers also seldom run A/C, forced induction, most rock crawlers are fairly light weight vehicles, etc.

Hill climb same as race truck/car

Diesel engines do produce heat (diesels actually like heat compared to a gasser). The modern diesel has a problem with high Oil & CoolantTemps do to the EGR systems and the use of aluminum engine parts limits the temps they can safely sustain.

As far back as the 70's up to today, running big block gassers in 1/2-1 ton pickups and bronco's in the desert SW with A/C, auto trans and also towing the boat or rv causes some drastic heat loads and the electric fans will not cool properly in these conditions. Not to mention the increased heat loads do to the emissions systems installed. Also in the late seventies and early 80's the manufactures switched to cross flow radiators to increase the cooling efficiency. This was needed do to the higher heat loads on newer EPA friendly vehicles.

 

[TexasNomad]

I'm sorry blackhat but I just can't agree with that.
I've been running my flex a lite fan for over 2 years now and I just can't see any thing wrong about it.

 

[Truckin4life]

I see your point black hat, but how many trucks REALLY need that much cooling, heck my truck NEVER gets past half way on the temp gauge. EVER.

If your REALLY worried about cooling dont ditch the belt driven fan i agree...

But IF your not having cooling issues and want to free up some power, ditch the belt driven fan.

IF you can keep your truck at a SAFE operating temp, AND gain power,
why not?
I dont baby my truck by any means, i beat the hell out of my truck, daily. I am religous about maintnence, almost daily i look under my truck see whats going on under there... Check my oil every morning before i head to work, dont romp on the gas or drive crazy until the truck is warmed up...

But once its warm, its balls to the walls No letting up driving.

and still my truck never gets past half way on the gauge.
The gauge works i know it does, depending on how long ive been driving how hot or cold it is, if the ac is running, if im towing... the gauge will move.

only time ive ever seen it past half gauge was when i was towing a truck on a trailer over a pass in montana... That was it. once i went over the pass it went back down to normal.

 

[Truckin4life]

Lets take these one at a time:

Proilators truck is in the PNW, not the desert SW

Any race truck/car does not really need much of a fan because the natural air flow do to high speed provides more than adequate air flow. Race vehicles do not spend much time idling in traffic.

Rock crawlers run them for a couple of reasons, ability to turn them off when crossing water, and less weight. Rock crawlers also seldom run A/C, forced induction, most rock crawlers are fairly light weight vehicles, etc.

Hill climb same as race truck/car

Diesel engines do produce heat (diesels actually like heat compared to a gasser). The modern diesel has a problem with high Oil & CoolantTemps do to the EGR systems and the use of aluminum engine parts limits the temps they can safely sustain.

As far back as the 70's up to today, running big block gassers in 1/2-1 ton pickups and bronco's in the desert SW with A/C, auto trans and also towing the boat or rv causes some drastic heat loads and the electric fans will not cool properly in these conditions. Not to mention the increased heat loads do to the emissions systems installed. Also in the late seventies and early 80's the manufactures switched to cross flow radiators to increase the cooling efficiency. This was needed do to the higher heat loads on newer EPA friendly vehicles.

I fully agree with all of your points, a electric fan is not for every one. But for most it is a reasonable upgrade. IF your really worried about over heating, then dont do it, that simple, if you are having a problem with getting to hot now, dont swap to an electric setup.

 

[blackhat620]

I'm sorry blackhat but I just can't agree with that.
I've been running my flex a lite fan for over 2 years now and I just can't see any thing wrong about it.

Just because the electric fan you installed on your truck is providing you adequate cooling does not mean that you did not decrease the cooling efficiency of your truck. In your application you may very well not need the upper limits of your cooling systems OEM abilities.

Your truck is a small block, stick shift if IIRC correctly. Do you idle in traffic for long periods of time in 115F weather? Do you routinely tow moderate to heavy loads in hot (110F+). Do you tow in the summer up long grades (ie desert mountains in southern california).

 

[Truckin4life]

Tennesse gets hot, but not that darn hot, this is supposed to be a wheeling rig where talking about too...

I see your applications blackhat, and if i were in those situations, electric fans would be out of the question....


As for Proliators truck he runs a BBF i think a 557 screamer, on nitrous.
He has his radiator mounted on the roll bar, roughly 3" above the top of the cab, and angled, so it catches plenty of air, and he has electric fans too, it ads a load to the cooling system but set up properly i see it being more efficent, at cooling, no hot air from the engine to contend with.

Does that make since?

 

[LEB Ben]

Wow...definitely learning alot in this debate...I hope I didn't open a can of worms with this one. This kinda seems like one of those "which is better...Holley or Eddy" debates. Since it can hit 100+ temps in NC during the summer and I do tow and I do idle quite a bit through Charlotte (when I'm home) or Knoxville (when I'm at school) traffic, I think I'll stick with my setup the way it is now and go with the biggest radiator I can afford...which right now is the Super Cooler from JBG. Thanks for all the info fellas.

 

[Truckin4life]

Ben are you still talking about the bronco?
I thought this is what you were speaking of, your "wheeling rig"

 

[blackhat620]

But for most it is a reasonable upgrade.

That is were you and i will agree to disagree, as i do not feel it is an "upgrade" at all, in fact it is a "downgrade" in most applications. Yes i worry about overheating the engine, especially after having lived in the desert SW for 40+ years and seen all the problems heat causes with internal combustion engines and automatic transmissions.

The only people that hype electric cooling fans, are the people selling electric cooling fans, racers who are looking for every speed advantage possible and off road applications were having the ability to turn the fan off in water crossings is needed.

Also most A/M electric fan applications cover/restrict part of the air flow through the radiator do to there mounting setup and one size fits all design. An OEM electric fan setup that was designed for the specific application and to properly fit the raditor will work as designed, and provide proper cooling for its intended application.

I am not against modifiy engines or vehicles at all, as if have built and raced cars for years, but i am not big into changing things because they are hyped in a magazine or A/M manufactures liturature. The A/M automotive industry has more chaf than wheat and it takes alot of time, beta testing and personal money to find out what actually works in your specific application.

 

[LEB Ben]

Ben are you still talking about the bronco?
I thought this is what you were speaking of, your "wheeling rig"

Yes this is my wheeling rig. However, I still do tow boats and campers with it. And I do take it out on the streets every now and again, cuz it gets better mpg's than Red or the crew.

 

[Skandocious]

I have one on my truck and I run cooler now then I ever did with my fan and shroud..

And as for the added electrical draw offsetting the gained horsepower? What a crock... My fan is turned OFF for about 99.9% of the time that my truck is driving. Any speeds above about 30mph don't require any fan at all, and lets face it-- most driving happens at 30+.

Yes the mechanical fans have a clutch which disengages when the fan isn't needed, but there is still friction and drag in that clutch assembly.

Bottom line-- e-fan = increased HP and possibly mileage. As for inferior cooling-- show me numbers to prove it. Until then, I have my own personal proof that the efan provides more cooling than my clutch fan EVER did. My proof? PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with BOTH types of fans on the same exact truck (ie-- all other variables held constant).

 

[Skandocious]

I am not against modifiy engines or vehicles at all, as if have built and raced cars for years, but i am not big into changing things because they are hyped in a magazine or A/M manufactures liturature. The A/M automotive industry has more chaf than wheat and it takes alot of time, beta testing and personal money to find out what actually works in your specific application.

^^ A fair point that you make... But what about us guys that HAVE done the mod and HAVE experienced the results first hand? I'm not reiterating some crap that I read in a magazine about increased numbers. I DID the mod and SAW the gains for myself.

 

[blackhat620]

As for Proliators truck he runs a BBF i think a 557 screamer, on nitrous.
He has his radiator mounted on the roll bar, roughly 3" above the top of the cab, and angled, so it catches plenty of air, and he has electric fans too, it ads a load to the cooling system but set up properly i see it being more efficent, at cooling, no hot air from the engine to contend with.

Does that make since?

Absoulutely, moving the radiator out of the engine compartment but still keeping it in the air stream is going to be more efficient, also he probably has a much larger radiator than stock and all of these features combined with the electric fans provides the proper amount of cooling needed.

My problem with electric fans is many people read in a car magazine or catalog that they can get increased Hp by ditching there belt driven fan and installing an electric fan. Problem is they do not understand that they are getting reduced cooling capacity and that may or may not be an acceptable trade off for there application and use. It is that age old problem of "action - reaction" every time we change something it has unintended consequences some where else that must be addressed. Nothing is ever as simple as just "bolting" something on or "plugging-in" a chip.

 

[Truckin4life]

In that case Ben keep the belt fan, keep your eye on the temp gauge, even under the heaviest of loads on the hottest days in bad traffic, if you want to expirerement, get a taurus fan, from a yard, and a shorter belt, no more than 50 max...
Wire it up and see what happens, If your not happy throw the belt one back on....
50ish dollars for 20 ponies, in the gasser world?
Seems cheap to me.

 

[TexasNomad]

I've taken long trips in my truck in the dead on of the west Texas heat and stop and go driving in the 112 degree summers and never have I had a heating issue, thats my proof..

 

[blackhat620]

^^ A fair point that you make... But what about us guys that HAVE done the mod and HAVE experienced the results first hand? I'm not reiterating some crap that I read in a magazine about increased numbers. I DID the mod and SAW the gains for myself.

Chris if it works for your application then great. But when you get to the desert SW or towing heavy in the desert mountains then you may see the downside. I have never had or know anybody in the desert SW who runs hard in these conditions to have good luck with swapping in electric fans for the belt driven water pump fan & shroud.

 

[Truckin4life]

That is were you and i will agree to disagree, as i do not feel it is an "upgrade" at all, in fact it is a "downgrade" in most applications. Yes i worry about overheating the engine, especially after having lived in the desert SW for 40+ years and seen all the problems heat causes with internal combustion engines and automatic transmissions.

The only people that hype electric cooling fans, are the people selling electric cooling fans, racers who are looking for every speed advantage possible and off road applications were having the ability to turn the fan off in water crossings is needed.

Also most A/M electric fan applications cover/restrict part of the air flow through the radiator do to there mounting setup and one size fits all design. An OEM electric fan setup that was designed for the specific application and to properly fit the raditor will work as designed, and provide proper cooling for its intended application.

I am not against modifiy engines or vehicles at all, as if have built and raced cars for years, but i am not big into changing things because they are hyped in a magazine or A/M manufactures liturature. The A/M automotive industry has more chaf than wheat and it takes alot of time, beta testing and personal money to find out what actually works in your specific application.

Just something i thought of, but what about switching to a colder thermostat? Would that help things along? Just a hair brained idea....

I see your points, and you make them well.
I will agree to disagree with you, but coming from different places in the country with different uses for our vehicles. It is expected to happen.
Like i said, it is not for everybody, but for some people it COULD be an upgrade. I dont belive magazie "hype" but seeing dyno numbers, then talking to people with real world expirence, i think in the right applications its a good idea.