Pulleys

[Bob Ayers]

Ok i talked to my buddy who i help in his performance shop. He said E fan it. In the winter time he doesnt even turn his fan on! Only time he uses it in the summer is if its very warm out, hes at the strip, or sitting in traffic. The E fan is in a truck thats got 450 RWHP, he ordered a 392 Crate engine thats going to put out 500 RWHP, yea do the math at the hp at the crank, he said he will be running that very same fan. Truck runs 10's in the quarter with N2O. I think im gonna do it, i want to get rid of that ugly shrowd.

Ask your buddy how long does he lets his truck idle in traffic!



But, if it makes you feel better, go for it!!!.......and see what happens using an e-fan without a shroud.......

 

[Skandocious]

If the e-fan is wired correctly, it should run whenever the AC compressor runs........And the clutch on the mechanical fan is normally not engauged!

I do, in fact have my fan wired to come on HIGH when my AC is turned on, WHEN my switch is in the AUTO(temp controlled) position. Then I've got a FAN OFF position and a manual override HIGH SPEED position on the switch. The switch is in the OFF position for the majority of the winter because I never need fan, AC or not... During the summer it's set in the auto position so it'll come on if need be, but even then I've noticed that as long as you're driving about 30+ theres no need to EVER have it on, which is what most of my driving is.

Look Bob, I'm not claiming to have numbers or dynos or 0-60 times... All I'm saying is that I've DONE THIS MOD and I experienced a noticeable difference in power and fuel economy. You can read stories on the internet all day but in the end, the only REAL way to find out the truth is to try it for yourself. This is the attitude that I've taken in the past, since I've had a lot of bum steers when it comes to 'tech talk'.

Do you have any personal experience with efan swaps on your vehicles or are you basing all your opinions strictly on what other people say?

 

[Skandocious]

Ask your buddy how long does he lets his truck idle in traffic!



But, if it makes you feel better, go for it!!!.......and see what happens using an e-fan without a shroud.......

Without a shroud? My efan has a shroud...

 

[Skandocious]

"Incompetency and installing an e-fan"


Is there a connection here???

If you're implying that I'm incompetent, I don't appreciate it.

 

[Bob Ayers]

Do you have any personal experience with efan swaps on your vehicles or are you basing all your opinions strictly on what other people say?

No, I base my opinions on my own engineering analysis, and judgement!

In addition to e-fans, you won't find a K&N air filter, or intake on any of
my vehicles either!!!

It is interesting, however, there are others that have the same opinion that
I have!!!

 

[Bob Ayers]

IAll I'm saying is that I've DONE THIS MOD and I experienced a noticeable difference in power and fuel economy.

Have you ever heard of the "Placebo Effect"??????

 

[Skandocious]

It is interesting, however, there are others that have the same opinion that
I have!!!

So what? There's many people that DON'T have your opinion. Just because some people feel the same way doesn't mean its CORRECT.

 

[Skandocious]

Have you ever heard of the "Placebo Effect"??????

Yes sir I have. Other non-biased parties also drove my truck and agreed that it performs better.

 

[TheRoadVirus]

Can't we just agree to disagree? I really don't care about your opinion because you post links that you haven't even read. It states pretty obviously that the clutch fan is never completely disengaged. Try spinning your fan with the engine off, there's still resistance.

I can understand you have your own personal views, but you're trying too hard to prove a number of people wrong. Including someone who actually has an e-fan right now (Skan) and seeing as how you've never had one.. It's hard to accept any opinion of them you might have. The factory clutch fan was engineered as it is for reliability and maximum cfm at a low cost. Plenty of new cars have e-fans, granted it's usually because their engines are mounted differently, you don't see them having problems with reliability. I never have. You don't see them having problems burning up their engine. Oh wait, that's because it's programmed to come on at a certain temperature, very similar to electric fan kits you can purchase in the aftermarket.

When it comes down to it, of course each of them have their benefits, it's just that in my opinion I'd prefer the electric. For reasons already stated many times over.

Edit; not to mention, it's rather annoying that you direct insults at those who don't happen to agree with your beliefs. Sad, really.

 

[Bob Ayers]

Can't we just agree to disagree?

Sounds good!!!

Plenty of new cars have e-fans, granted it's usually because their engines are mounted differently, you don't see them having problems with reliability. I never have. You don't see them having problems burning up their engine.

I've never seen an OEM E-FAN setup that you could turn OFF & ON manually, as suggested in an earlier post!


If you look back through all my posts, I've never told somebody they couldn't buy and install an e-fan! I'm mainly interested in keeping youngsters (who don't have much money) from throwing their money away on useless mods (IMO).

 

[tomtoc]

i think we might be able to have the best of both worlds with a MANUAL fan. no electric pull or switches to worry about, no mechanical fan or fan clutch. i'd think you could work something out with the window crank that would work well. either that, or something you'd pump like the old sewing machines. you could pump that with your left foot, only briefly stopping to hit the clutch.

(kidding of course)

 

[Skandocious]

I'm mainly interested in keeping youngsters (who don't have much money) from throwing their money away on useless mods (IMO).

And because we're 'youngsters' and you're an older gentleman, we're to assume that what you tell us is always correct? Sorry Bob, I'm a heavy believer in respecting my superiors for the fact that they are older and thus wiser, but in this case I do believe you're misinformed.

We're really bickering over nothing, because as I've stated already, the efan is already in my truck and I'm 100% satisfied with the results. Don't matter what links you show me


And Bob, you're point about there being other people whom agree with you doesn't really contribute much to your argument... There are ALWAYS two sides to a battle, doesn't matter what it is. Many people argued for OJ's innocence in the murder trial but I'll be damned if that jerkoff wasn't guilty. But if you'd like to use that as an argument then I too will do so. Google 'taurus fan' and see how many jeepers/broncos/mustangs etc have done this mod and had good results... Why would SO many people bother with this swap if it didn't offer benefits? Heck, there's one webmagazine that published a tutorial on how to do a 'taurus fan swap' in a mustang, and reported considerable gains at the track after the mod.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/02/electricfan/index.php

That's an awful bold statement for a large website like that one to be making, and thus putting their reputation on the line... Just my .02

 

[Skandocious]

i think we might be able to have the best of both worlds with a MANUAL fan. no electric pull or switches to worry about, no mechanical fan or fan clutch. i'd think you could work something out with the window crank that would work well. either that, or something you'd pump like the old sewing machines. you could pump that with your left foot, only briefly stopping to hit the clutch.

(kidding of course)

Hahahaha thank you Tom, for that UTTERLY useless post in our debate. LOL!

 

[eco]

Not only do you have the electric motor, you have the temp sensor, controller (which contains a relay), wiring, and connectors that can fail!

Says who?

See if you can find all those parts on my rig.

 

[eco]

Say what?? You don't realize that the pulley is still on the water pump, and the drive belt(s) are still in place? Try measuring the mechanical fan, and the e-fan! The blades are thinner on the e-fan, but this has something to say about cooling capacity, when you consider the MAX RPM of an e-fan is around 2K RPMs, and much less blade surface area!

And what about the big old shroud that takes up all that room?

Blade thickness and underhood space?? Blade thickness is hardly part of the underhood space issue.

Notice how you ignore my other points and come up with a arguement like this...

 

[eco]

If the e-fan is wired correctly, it should run whenever the AC compressor runs........And the clutch on the mechanical fan is normally not engauged!

And everyone has an AC compressor???

See if you can find one on my rig.

 

[Mr. Stroker]

If you wire it up right, you dont have to worry about anything failing. Sure parts fail, but if ford motor company can wire up a fan, and no one have complaints about it failing then i sure as hell can.

 

[frederic]

I personally don't think there's an obvious increase in available horsepower by using an e-fan, but they do solve a lot of packaging problems, especially if you're shoving a physically large engine into a much smaller vehicle (460 in an Explorer, for example, 302 in a Spitfire, RX7, etc).

Efans became prominant in car manufacturing when FWD became more or less the norm because the enigne points sideways (as would a mechanical fan if so equipped) whereas the radiator still is in the traditional place - up front, facing the airstream.

I *think* (and this is a guess) the reason why efans propogated to RWD vehicles as well was siimply ease of assembly. Most e-fans these days are attached with two bolts at the top or slightly to the side, and tabs on the bottom of the e-fan housing snaps into the radiator core support. Much easier/faster to put together on an assembly line than the usual four bolts for the fan clutch to water pump, and four bolts for the fan to fan clutch.

Engine compartments, even on RWD pickups, are much tighter than they used to be. Even full size pickups don't have the same engine bay length as the cars of yesteryear. They also are more sloped or contoured then they used to be (more notable on cars) so the hood slope forces the radiator to be much lower than they were 20 years ago. When the engine is higher than the radiator, a mechanical fan might not line up enough to make the system completely effective and reliable, so an efan solves that problem - it moves down with the radiator on the drafting table.

The old efans were on/off. Newer ones have speed control which may be interesting or useful to some people. Typically two motor windings for hi/low and off, some fancier cars have true PWM controllers and can vary the speed from 5% to 95% using a basic digitally controlled chopper circuit. Car needs a little fan, it gets a little fan. By applying only as much fan speed as the cooling system needs, makes for a quieter car. As we all know running an efan at full speed is rather noisy.

Some vehicles can be optioned either way - mechanical fan or e-fan, such as the last body style crown victoria/mercury marquis. Efan is stock and dealers have the ability to remove that and install the mechanical fan option. If you have the severe duty version of this series (intercepter or marauder) the efan is different so you can order the car with BOTH an efan AND a mechanical fan - clutch to water pump just like the old days.

I had installed an e-fan in my crewcab and was very happy with it for a few years. Then the efan in my CV kept popping fuses every week causing an EEC-triggered shut down condition (always in the fast lane and not quite when I wanted the EEC to deliberately shut the car down), after I fixed the problem I decided to remove the efan out of my crewcab.

Again, sometimes simple is best. When I eventually get around to finishing the 500cid, twin turbo stroker for my crewcab, it will have an efan once again. Mostly because I'll have a large pipe in front of the engine with a merge tube feeding the powerstroke intercooler, so a mechanical fan/clutch will interfere.

 

[flareside_thunder]

See quicklook...oops I mean "Bob".....you JUST swap to an e-fan for performance but out of necessity as well...and as for your remark about "youngsters" we don't ALL have the financial stability to own these:
1921 Ford Model T
1961 Ford Galaxie
1972 Volvo 1800E
1981 Mercedes 300D
1993 Mercedes 190E 2.6
1999 Ford Ranger 3.0L FFV 2WD

But we can manage I'm pretty sure.....people didn't learn about other mods by reading a friggin research link from some damned pencil pusher in some stuffy office...they did it by trial and error....but seeing as how you're perfect...oh wait...you had a miscommunication with what Bronk said.....he stated he wanted to get an e-fan to ditch that ugly shroud correct?He was talking about the FACTORY shroud....Furthermore, I have to agree with RYAN YOU DID NOT READ MY POST OR ANY OF THE LINKS AS YOU SO BLUNTLY STATED!!!!!!I said that the new kits come with LARGER water pump and altenator pulleys as well as a SMALLER crank pulley...thus providing the ample output needed to sufficiently produce via the LARGER pulleys...so how do those accessories turn slower?Indulge me PLEASE!I am begging you to show me the light and bring my IDIOCY to the surface in one of my previous posts......

JR

 

[A_G]

im eating cookies....