working out bugs charging issue

[BuzzGun79]

guys a charging issue has occured on my 79 F250 460, 65amp alt.{new duralast from autozone & new regulator}up to this point the vehicle was charging on its own & all was fine.ive been driving it short distances to get to know the vehicle & work out the bugs so to speak,its only been running about a month.i have noticed that sometimes there is a delay of 10 sec when you turn the ign. key to crank it over it will delay then crank & start up.other times it will crank right up.once the engine fires & starts,while its running my volt meter shows a discharge condition.by a jiggle of the ignition key {switch is dash mounted}the voltmeter will rise & the truck will charge the system....well after sitting about a week i got in her cranked it up it started fine but is no longer charging,i tried my jiggle trick & no good.i took the alternator back to the store and it was tested several times & it checks out good,the regulator is also brand new.i see no corrosition at the pigtail of the regulator,the wires appear soft & bendable.same with the alternator wires & there is power going to the alternator.any ideas? could there be a fault in the ign switch causeing this?my electrical diagnosis skills are weak.suggestions would be very helpfull..thanks..Bob

 

[Mil1ion]

What makes you think it isn't charging...you're not going by the gauge are you ?

Have you hooked up a multi-meter to watch for current increase from 12.8 to 13.5 volts when you rev it up ?

 

[BuzzGun79]

truck will die when removing the ground battery cable & the gauge shows 12 [aftermarket}volts.when running.it also discharges the battery while its running & then its difficult to restart without recharging the battery.when it was charging the gauge was almost at 14 & would run taking the cable off the battery.its running straight off the battery & not the alternator for some reason

 

[GHoss]

If your Truck is dieing when removing the battery cable it is the Altenator.

 

[BuzzGun79]

i thought so to...but it tested ok on autozones machine,he wouldnt switch it out because it was working....i guess i will take it back & demand another one & see if that takes care of it.

 

[blacksnapon]

truck will die when removing the ground battery cable & the gauge shows 12 [aftermarket}volts.when running.it also discharges the battery while its running & then its difficult to restart without recharging the battery.when it was charging the gauge was almost at 14 & would run taking the cable off the battery.its running straight off the battery & not the alternator for some reason

DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT REMOVE THE BATTERY CABLES WHEN IT IS RUNNING! The charging system is a closed loop kind of thing. When removing the cables, you open the circuit. An alternator can and will put out 110 volts. When you open it, the regulator is no longer in the circuit then you're putting 110 volts to components set for 12. I've seen guys open them up, turn on the headlights, and blow both of them out. An ignition system only takes a few amps to run, even a sick alternator can do that.

 

[BuzzGun79]

hmmm...although i understand your theory Blacksnapon.my prolblem arrived before i even did anything.it was fine for a month without fail,all of a sudden start it up & no charge.the reason i removed the ground was to check and see if the alternator was working in a charging state & to varify my volt meter reading in the truck,how ever i dont fully agree that by disconnecting the battery takes out the regulator since the Alternators out put feeds the regulator once the vehicle starts & then recharges the battery.if the alt. was good the truck should have run off of it without the battery.removing the cable is not something i would reccomend to someone,but i have used this technique many times on older vehicles.it never steered me wrong.

 

[BuzzGun79]

hmmm...although i understand your theory Blacksnapon.my prolblem arrived before i even did anything.it was fine for a month without fail,all of a sudden start it up & no charge.the reason i removed the ground was to check and see if the alternator was working in a charging state & to varify my volt meter reading in the truck,the Alternater recieves its power from the battery,how ever i dont fully agree that by disconnecting the battery takes out the regulator since the Alternators out put feeds the regulator once the vehicle starts & then recharges the battery.if the alt. was any good the truck should have run off of it without the battery.removing the cable is not something i would reccomend to someone,but i have used this technique many times on older vehicles.it never steered me wrong.heck one time i recall of junking a vehicle by,starting it up,carefully removed the new battery,drove it about a mile to the yard off the alternator shut it off & left it

 

[blacksnapon]

hmmm...although i understand your theory Blacksnapon.my prolblem arrived before i even did anything.it was fine for a month without fail,all of a sudden start it up & no charge.the reason i removed the ground was to check and see if the alternator was working in a charging state & to varify my volt meter reading in the truck,the Alternater recieves its power from the battery,how ever i dont fully agree that by disconnecting the battery takes out the regulator since the Alternators out put feeds the regulator once the vehicle starts & then recharges the battery.if the alt. was any good the truck should have run off of it without the battery.removing the cable is not something i would reccomend to someone,but i have used this technique many times on older vehicles.it never steered me wrong.heck one time i recall of junking a vehicle by,starting it up,carefully removed the new battery,drove it about a mile to the yard off the alternator shut it off & left it

Ever wonderhow the power inverters work? The ones where you can get 110 volts out of your vehicle? I'm here just to give advice, even though I've replaced gauges, alternators, wiring, instrument clusters because of that technique, you do whatever you want to do. The garage business is a little slow now, you'll make someone very happy.

 

[blacksnapon]

For a circuit to operate properly, there must be power, AND GROUND. If you remove the ground cable, where does it get its ground from? Google "rectifier" and see what its job is inside the alternator.

 

[BuzzGun79]

I really appreciate the advice ..Blacksnapon & will take it.thanks..Bob

 

[73F100Shortbed]

I wonder where everyone got this idea that removing the ground is a good way to test the alternator I hear people suggest it all the time, but it is easier to buy a cheap meter from Sears or any other place that sells them. Why risk frying anything?

 

[Mil1ion]

I really appreciate the advice ..Blacksnapon & will take it.thanks..Bob

I gave you the same advice in another thread days ago

This so-called Trick is from the days of GENERATORS on cars.

They did this to get generators to get them charging..it is called: Exciting.

Once ALTERNATORS showed up that Trick is the prime cause of Ruining alternators and at $100+ a pop gets expensive real fast for people who don't listen to others in the know

 

[Mil1ion]

truck will die when removing the ground battery cable & the gauge shows 12 [aftermarket}volts.when running.it also discharges the battery while its running & then its difficult to restart without recharging the battery.when it was charging the gauge was almost at 14 & would run taking the cable off the battery.its running straight off the battery & not the alternator for some reason

So you have a voltmeter hooked up to the system?

When revving the engine that needle should go up accordingly

 

[sgarver]

So you have a voltmeter hooked up to the system?

When revving the engine that needle should go up accordingly

The way I always understood it, the regulator keeps your voltage the same no mater what your rpm is. If the voltage goes up as the rpm goes up, the regulator is bad. However the amperage can vary with the rpm and would require an amp meter rather than a volt meter to see it.
If your voltage were allowed to vary with the rpm, then your head lights (all lights) would dim and brighten based on rpm and we all know they shouldn't do that.

 

[BuzzGun79]

please excuse my incompetence fellas..i was wrong you were right. the volt gauge reads 12.5 constant..even at throttle up.it draws back to 12 when the lights are on...Bob

 

[sgarver]

I'll go out on a limb here. If the alternator still tests good, I would change the "new regulator". However, if you had the jiggle the ignition switch to get it to charge before, my guess would be the switch has finally gone bad. There are more than 1 contact inside and they do wear out with age. On 1 of mine, occasionally the gauges won't work and I have to turn the switch back a little. I know it needs changing but just haven't gotten to it yet.

 

[BuzzGun79]

i dont know...i know i saw what i saw when i jigglled the switch the volt meter rose to 13.8 .now it wont budge off of 12.5 volts.alternator is good & put new regualtor still 12.5. ran the vehicle about 15 min still 12.5 volts.now if 12.8 is minimum charge.than the vehicle is not charging the system.at this point im totally confused...

 

[Alvin in AZ]

...at $100+ a pop...

I believe I ruined the original Ford ignition module in my '75 F150 in '79
when I -accidentally- let the truck run without the battery for a few
minutes.

I didn't feel like I could afford a $25 battery at the time and was nursing
a bad battery along and was fartin' around with it and next thing you
know the ignition module starts acting up and needed to be replaced. LOL

$109 !! for a Standard Motor Products Blue Streak that I've still got.
Hey, I still had to buy a battery too. LOL It was ~$90 for a "cheapy".

A guy somewhere posted his theory and don't remember the details but
he figured the module was ruined by the weak battery itself. His idea
made sense at the time, just can't remember what it was.

Alvin in AZ

 

[Mil1ion]

as soon as that normal blue spark turns yellow all the time ,,ya's better be Trouble shooting the ignition system.