Truck Prices as a Financial Discussion

[blacksnapon]

My take on it is everything has grown just about the same rate. Supply and demand changes things a little. When I entered the workforce, minimum wage was $1.25, a nice 3br home was 30k, gas was .30.

 

[O'Rattlecan]

When you adjust for inflation, it's not exponential. Period. It goes up, but it's not even remotely exponential.

It's simply a matter of supply and demand with cost built in.

You tell me how many more hours went in to designing an ecoboost compared to a 300 i6. That ecoboost is a moving math problem. The i6 is just a reliable machine not built for efficiency.

Look at the suspension. My old truck rides like crap compared to my new truck. I love the old truck and it can take a beating but it wasn't designed to perfection like the new truck.

You're getting more product.

Ryan

 

[Austin]

Is this your opinion or was this what came from your dad?

We had a joint discussion; I gathered the points.

 

[Austin]

He made a point on the spending money because you can folk. He can sell a platinum or KR to some guy with 6 figure office job all day long. He's sold raptors that will never see a gravel road, let alone a trail.

While discussing this, he was aiding a friend trade his HD F-150 for a Corvette. Why? Because the guy wanted one.

People buy what they want.

 

[O'Rattlecan]

And let's start back to Brad's truck.

$2800 isn't sticker, which is what you're using for your forumla - flawed right from the outset.

What did 'top of the line' include back then? That truck didn't have A/C, power steering, or any serious electronics.

If you want to compare apples to apples, you need to look at an XL pickup in the same configuration - even then you've got WAY more advanced technology and standard features that Brad's old truck couldn't touch. That includes engines that are wildly efficient and have killer longevity, on board computers that keep everything running tip-top. You have MASSIVE emmission systems with EGR, oxygen sensors out the yin yang. Brad's truck had a PCV valve for crying out loud.

Ryan

 

[Fordzilla80]

Uhhmm, Brad's truck probably ran fine for many miles without on board diagnostics. He probably did fine without A/C too, as I will in the F100. I would like a truck with a bench seat, no a/c, no carpet, a manual, a dependable easy to work on platform, and manual windows/locks. Half of that I can't even get for crying out loud. Consumers and their demands really suck.

 

[FordF-SuperDuty]

My 1988 Bronco has nearly everything on it besides the Eddie Bauer package, D44HD, 351W, outside spare tire carrier, and rear defroster. It cost 18,300.

Just food for thought there.

My opinion on this: All the auto manufactures out there are out there to try to make money, in my opinion they give what the majority of the people want and a price that they are willing to pay. If the said prices were to high for the market to afford they would be lower so they could make money, that's the lovely thing about Laissez-Faire economics . Without the the high end trim buyers of yester year you could not find any of the high end stuff today (Yes I'm looking at you Shaun ). The high end Raptors, Harleys, and King Ranches are not in the sales majority, most of the newer trucks I see are int he XLT or STX, which essentially is a work truck that doesn't look like one.

 

[TexasRho83]

Ryan makes some excellent points here. The time and effort put into the improvements and comforts of newer rigs these days costs thousands in research and testing.

Let's not leave out safety improvements as well. While we all brag about how good a hit these older trucks can take, the truth of the matter is, people are driving faster and crazier these days and the mortality rate from fatal accidents is vastly low considering the number of accidents and severity factors.

I spent $10k more for the 2010 than I did for the 2005 (bought 3 years ago) but I can tell a world of difference in the ride quality and overall experience just in that short amount of time span

 

[Fordzilla80]

My 1988 Bronco has nearly everything on it besides the Eddie Bauer package, D44HD, 351W, outside spare tire carrier, and rear defroster. It cost 18,300.

Just food for thought there.

Taylor, you are aware that a D44HD is an 8 lug axle right?

 

[CaFordDude]

I buy what I want in relationship to what I can afford.

 

[Blue Goose]

You're correct Ryan, my '68 didn't have power brakes, steering, or air. It came with 2 ply bias tires and bottle cap hubcaps. I don't know if you can buy an XL that basic today.

Don't forget a couple other government mandated items on todays pickup vs. my old '68. Airbags and catalytic converters. Either of those items are so valuable, thieves steal them frequently.

 

[FordF-SuperDuty]

Taylor, you are aware that a D44HD is an 8 lug axle right?

I thought that was the D50, anyway there was a Heavy Duty Front Axle option on the Bronco and I figured that is what was involved.

 

[O'Rattlecan]

Uhhmm, Brad's truck probably ran fine for many miles without on board diagnostics. He probably did fine without A/C too, as I will in the F100. I would like a truck with a bench seat, no a/c, no carpet, a manual, a dependable easy to work on platform, and manual windows/locks. Half of that I can't even get for crying out loud. Consumers and their demands really suck.

What you can 'get by with' has nothing to do with the development and production costs of the truck. No offense but Brad's old truck on average is not going to out-last the new truck.

On top of that in regards to Charles talking about safety - look at gross vehicle weight. The safety improvements are heavy including airbags, crunch zones, etc. You're talking about a vehicle that is thousands of pounds heavier and has thousands of pounds more payload. It does more.

And look what a new modular engine costs in raw metal weight. It's all aluminum! This is to help reduce the huge weight to help meet EPA and CAFE. If you don't think the type of metal used affects prices you've got another thing coming. And I'll tell you it's not a conspiracy by the company that's using those materials either.

Ryan

 

[FordF-SuperDuty]

What you can 'get by with' has nothing to do with the development and production costs of the truck. No offense but Brad's old truck on average is not going to out-last the new truck.

On top of that in regards to Charles talking about safety - look at gross vehicle weight. The safety improvements are heavy including airbags, crunch zones, etc. You're talking about a vehicle that is thousands of pounds heavier and has thousands of pounds more payload. It does more.

And look what a new modular engine costs in raw metal weight. It's all aluminum! This is to help reduce the huge weight to help meet EPA and CAFE. If you don't think the type of metal used affects prices you've got another thing coming. And I'll tell you it's not a conspiracy by the company that's using those materials either.

Ryan

http://jalopnik.com/5710652/how-cars-are-getting-fatter

They even use the F-150 as an example.

 

[Fordzilla80]

What you can 'get by with' has nothing to do with the development and production costs of the truck. No offense but Brad's old truck on average is not going to out-last the new truck.

Ryan

I really don't see where you get your info on how long the new trucks are gonna last, as none of these "new" trucks have even begun to age yet. Get back with us on longevity in about 10 years, and we'll see where they stand then. There's a difference in how many miles a vehicle has, and how old it is. Maybe they can last 200K miles, but can they last 20-30 years?

 

[O'Rattlecan]

I really don't see where you get your info on how long the new trucks are gonna last, as none of these "new" trucks have even begun to age yet. Get back with us on longevity in about 10 years, and we'll see where they stand then. There's a difference in how many miles a vehicle has, and how old it is. Maybe they can last 200K miles, but can they last 20-30 years?

Look I'm not trying to dogpile here, but let's not be ridiculous. If I park it in the garage every night like the old vehicles that are still sucking air, of course it can.

And you can't throw miles under the bus to divert the discussion. Miles = utility.

Ryan

 

[FordF-SuperDuty]

I really don't see where you get your info on how long the new trucks are gonna last, as none of these "new" trucks have even begun to age yet. Get back with us on longevity in about 10 years, and we'll see where they stand then. There's a difference in how many miles a vehicle has, and how old it is. Maybe they can last 200K miles, but can they last 20-30 years?

I say there actauly is a good chance, looking back at the old computers that lasted.

 

[LEB Ben]

When you adjust for inflation, it's not exponential. Period. It goes up, but it's not even remotely exponential.

Alright...I may have exagerrated a little. But fact of the matter is, Adjusted for 2005 numbers, the median income in the US only increased $15,000, while the price of trucks arguably increased 35-50k.

It's simply a matter of supply and demand with cost built in.

I'll buy that.

You tell me how many more hours went in to designing an ecoboost compared to a 300 i6. That ecoboost is a moving math problem. The i6 is just a reliable machine not built for efficiency.

Look at the suspension. My old truck rides like crap compared to my new truck. I love the old truck and it can take a beating but it wasn't designed to perfection like the new truck.

Just keep in mind, at one point all the technology was new.



As for Brad's truck...I was simply restating what he had said in another thread...I believe it was either an SD or Raptor thread where he posted a pic of his 68 and HE said it was top of the line.



Personally, I see it as people are willing to pay the prices. In a new top of the line 350, I just don't see 30-35k more truck, than what I already have in my driveway. Spread over the number of units sold (don't forget, not all of this technology is exclusive to just trucks), I don't see all of that being engineering costs.

 

[mrxlh]

I guess I will jump in. Most of what you are paying for is engineering and engineering gone wrong (aka warranty). You'll notice that the price jumped considerably when the higher tech things were added, in part, due to the higher cost, but mainly due to higher warranty claims. The surefire way to not lose money is to raise the cost of the truck/vehicle and give a better warranty or the appearance of a better warranty to justify it. Look at lexus, they goodwill tons of stuff out of warranty. The reason being, they made a ton of cash up front on the lease or the sale and can "afford" to throw a $6800 shrot block in out of warranty to keep a satisfied customer. Albeit Ford, GM and Dodge are not doing this, for the price of the trucks, you would think they could.

Warranty on a carter afb. $300
Warranty on a 6.0 injector $1000

 

[mrxlh]

I will also add this. Simple supply and demand. If Nissan, Toyota, Mazada, all started cutting into the market and offered a 3/4 ton diesel and 1 ton dually diesel, you would see some pant chitting by the big 3. I fully believe you will see a Toyota diesel on the market within 3 years. Look at what they would have had to do to compete with the big 3. Start a diesel from scratch make it meet tier 2 or 3 epa regs, rush it to market have a ton of warranty claims, then spend gobs of cash building a whole new motor to meet tier 4 and rush it to market. Oh wait the big 3 already did that. When the smoke settles and the dust clears, and a final emission mandate (not changing every 2-3 years) comes out, you'll see Toyota enter the market. Weather the others will or not remains to be seen. The competition will be fierce for sure, and I would bet the prices will drop accordingly.