Real or Myth?: Syn vs. Conv.

[taxreliever]

Maybe depending on operating conditions & load (think Death Valley July towing 15K daily) but generally for most dd users you will not see a difference.



No you will not have more oil at your next oil change. Currently you are using a "semi-synthetic", the switch to a "full synthetic" (Group III, IV or V) or "full conventional" is not going to appreciably change your engines oil comsumption. The only thing that would change your oil consumption by changing oil types is if the "new" oils chemistry causes new leaks in your engine and the odds of that with todays oils are slim at best.
A much greater effect on the dd oil consumption is the choice of oil viscosity, low viscosity oil use generally results in higher consumption levels, and less barrier protection under load.

A synthetic oil (Goup III, IV or V) has and advantage in extreme cold (Alaska) and extreme heat (Death Valley). The advantage to synthetic oil in extreme cold is that it is more stable & flows better in low temperatures than dino oil. This is one of the main reasons synthetic oil was developed. In extreme heat synthetic oil has a higher flash point (important for turbine engines) and has better "barrier" protection than dino oil.

Manufactures specify low oil viscosity to get a slight uptick in mpg which is important in meeting government mandates cheaply and it also will increase engine power output slightly but at the added cost of more wear. The specification of low viscosity oils by the manufactures has resulted in the increased use of "semi-synthetic" & "full synthetic" oils in order to meet the minimum lubrication requirements of the engine, since most dino oils at 5W-20 etc do not have the stability to work consistantly under normal driving conditions.

Ryan this is a quick Cliff Notes version hopefully it helps.

Wow, good information...thanks!

 

[mrxlh]

It depends on what synthetic you plan to use.

I'll help you out, if its not Mobil 1, Redline or Royal Purple, your wasting your money.

Now for the info you were wanting.

If you use a GP III, stay with conventional, it is not a PAO or Ester base stock. Hence to me (I don't really care what a judge decided) a GP III is still just conventional oil.

If your engine is not leaking internally, it may help through frictional losses due to heat, where a PAO or Ester lowers frictional losses, (IE shell bearings, cam rollers, rocker arm studs, ect, but in the case of valve stem seal leakage where it gets into the combustion chamber or oil control ring leakage, switching to synthetic will just cost you more money) transmissions and differentials syn is the only way to go.

 

[mrxlh]

Off topic, what does the oil cap specify for the grade of oil for your truck, and what are you using?

 

[DNFXDLI]

I'll help you out, if its not Mobil 1, Redline or Royal Purple, your wasting your money.

.

Missed one

 

[mrxlh]

I could answer but I won't...I use a particular brand that I am very happy with.
All I will say is that true synthetic will tend to hold up better all the way around...and also, the crapola about not using synthetic for engine break-in is a crock...given that several manufacturers use it from day one in specific models.

Probably not available here in the states, it might be known to cause cancer in Cali.

 

[DNFXDLI]

Probably not available here in the states, it might be known to cause cancer in Cali.

Ok...now that made me howl!

 

[mrxlh]

Synthetic Base Stocks
Synthetic motor oils are man made oils from the following classes of lubricants:

• Polyalphaolefin (PAO) = American Petroleum Institute (API) Group IV base oil
• Synthetic esters, etc = API Group V base oils (non-PAO synthetics, including diesters, polyolesters, alklylated napthlenes, alkyklated benzenes, etc.)
• Hydrocracked/Hydroisomerized = API Group III base oils. Chevron, Shell, and other petrochemical companies developed processes involving catalytic conversion of feed stocks under pressure in the presence of hydrogen into high-quality mineral lubricating oil. In 2005, production of GTL (gas-to-liquid) Group III base stocks began, the best of which perform much like polyalphaolefin. Group III-base stocks are considered synthetic motor oil only in the United States;[13] elsewhere they are not allowed to be marketed as "synthetic".

 

[mrxlh]

Missed one

Torco, Bell, or Amsoil?

 

[mrxlh]

Although used in the aviation and aerospace industries beginning in the early 1950s, the first synthetic oil developed for automotive combustion engines and fully recognized by the American Petroleum Institute (API) was produced by the Hatco Corp.[10] in 1972 as per specific specification requirements by Albert J. Amatuzio, current President and CEO of Amsoil Inc. This first API-rated synthetic motor oil was distributed exclusively through Amsoil Inc., meeting API (SE/CC) specifications and was based on a 10W-40-grade Diester API (category V) formulation. Today Amsoil Inc. markets a full line of API (category IV)-licensed synthetic motor oil [11] and many other API (category IV) PAO base oil formulations that are claimed by Amsoil to meet or exceed current API requirements.
Other early synthetic motor oils marketed included "The Original Syn!" by SynLube in 1969, NEO Oil Company (formally EON) in 1970; they were dibasic acide esters, or diesters, and polyol ester-based synthetic lubricants. In 1971 All-Proof and Mobil 1, introduced to North America in 1974 a 5W-20 grade (category IV) PAO base oil.[12]

 

[blackhat620]

It depends on what synthetic you plan to use.
I'll help you out, if its not Mobil 1, Redline or Royal Purple, your wasting your money.

Curious who do you like?

If your engine is not leaking internally, it may help through frictional losses due to heat, where a PAO or Ester lowers frictional losses, (IE shell bearings, cam rollers, rocker arm studs, ect, but in the case of valve stem seal leakage where it gets into the combustion chamber or oil control ring leakage, switching to synthetic will just cost you more money) transmissions and differentials syn is the only way to go.

Transmissions, Differentials & Transfercases the only way to go unless you routinely submerse them in water.

 

[mrxlh]

Of course while it is synthetic in nature because it is not made from crude, is Cen-pe-co, used to make a bean based oil, many dirt track racers used to use it and swear by it. I don't know if they still make it today or not.

 

[mrxlh]

Curious who do you like?



Transmissions, Differentials & Transfercases the only way to go unless you routinely submerse them in water.

I don't use synthetic

 

[blackhat620]

Although used in the aviation and aerospace industries beginning in the early 1950s, the first synthetic oil developed for automotive combustion engines and fully recognized by the American Petroleum Institute (API) was produced by the Hatco Corp.[10] in 1972 as per specific specification requirements by Albert J. Amatuzio, current President and CEO of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmsoilAmsoil Inc. This first API-rated synthetic motor oil was distributed exclusively through Amsoil Inc., meeting API (SE/CC) specifications and was based on a 10W-40-grade Diester API (category V) formulation. Today Amsoil Inc. markets a full line of API (category IV)-licensed synthetic motor oil [11] and many other API (category IV) PAO base oil formulations that are claimed by Amsoil to meet or exceed current API requirements.
Other early synthetic motor oils marketed included "The Original Syn!" by SynLube in 1969, NEO Oil Company (formally EON) in 1970; they were dibasic acide esters, or diesters, and polyol ester-based synthetic lubricants. In 1971 All-Proof and Mobil 1, introduced to North America in 1974 a 5W-20 grade (category IV) PAO base oil.[12]

Gotta love Wiki, I believe the Amsoil salesmen wrote this paragraph, gotta love Amsoil claims to be first even though there were several other brands available prior to 1972. And as far as a full line of API certified oils is dubious at best.

Synthetic oil was used in the Aviation industry in the 1940's (military aircraft WWII).

 

[blackhat620]

I don't use synthetic

Well I don't either in a dd but I am guessing by your previous post there are a few synthetics that you like under certain conditions. Just curious as to what those are.

 

[mrxlh]

I use Havoline 20W50 in the bike, and Havoline in everything else gasoline powered that does not require 15W40. If it does require 15W40 I use Delo 400. If I ran synthetic in my 6.4 I would run Chevron Delo syn. I use Motorcraft 15W40 as the dealership changes my oil.

 

[mrxlh]

Gotta love Wiki, I believe the Amsoil salesmen wrote this paragraph, gotta love Amsoil claims to be first even though there were several other brands available prior to 1972. And as far as a full line of API certified oils is dubious at best.

Synthetic oil was used in the Aviation industry in the 1940's (military aircraft WWII).

I believe the key here is what was the first to be certified by API as being synthetic and meeting or exceeding API rating standards. Greg, you and myself could throw some oil together and call it synthetic, doesn't mean it is, or will even work in your car.

 

[mrxlh]

Greg

In a Harley I would prefer to run Redline if track racing. Esters allow some engine clearances that would be downright scary using GP II III or IV.

If street racing, I would run a PAO, pick your poison, PAO is only made in 2 or 3 locations, so the base stock is pretty much the same, brand not critical, pick the cheapest one with an add pack that fits your application.
For the record, Amsoil is a good oil, if its API rated for your application, use it. If not buyer be ware.

 

[blackhat620]

I use Havoline 20W50 in the bike, and Havoline in everything else gasoline powered that does not require 15W40. If it does require 15W40 I use Delo 400. If I ran synthetic in my 6.4 I would run Chevron Delo syn. I use Motorcraft 15W40 as the dealership changes my oil.

Two good oils there, cannot go wrong with Chevron products

Greg

In a Harley I would prefer to run Redline if track racing. Esters allow some engine clearances that would be downright scary using GP II III or IV.

If street racing, I would run a PAO, pick your poison, PAO is only made in 2 or 3 locations, so the base stock is pretty much the same, brand not critical, pick the cheapest one with an add pack that fits your application.
For the record, Amsoil is a good oil, if its API rated for your application, use it. If not buyer be ware.

Have gotten great results with Redline in race applications, and have used their gear oils in many street vehicles. Street racing isn't happening in my world, the track is the place to take racing lest some bystander gets killed. As far as Amsoil, don't like their snake oil practices and so as a matter of principle wouldn't even use their stuff to lube a bicycle chain.

 

[DNFXDLI]

Amsoil...and I am happy with it...don't give a rats *** if some doesn't adhere to a voluntary standard...I don't care for the MLM approach, just use the products.

 

[blackhat620]

Amsoil...and I am happy with it...don't give a rats *** if some doesn't adhere to a voluntary standard...I don't care for the MLM approach, just use the products.

Duncan,
I don't get to upset about API ratings until a company like Amsoil claims all there products meet or exceed API ratings. Then when pressed go say they are not API rated because it cost to much money & that API plays favoritism (just sour grapes on their part). Yet they sell there product through at legalized ponzi scheme (MLM). For example only two of their engine oils are API certified (OE & XL) yet all their posted info lists API ratings in the same manner for all of their oils, just to deceptive for my taste. Also their products cost as much or more than legitimate products that are easily investigated for formulation & use.

Each to their own as far as what products they choose to purchase, I just will not support a product or business that promotes deceptive practices if at all possible.