It's happen again

[satcom40]

I talked to my pre-luber gay today and he said that the most his pump could ever put out is 56 psi (normal 40-45) and it wouldn't last long before blowing the fuse. The 6.0L makes more then that, I think. Have to wait and see what Dave fines out.

 

[6L PWR]

I talked to my pre-luber gay today

Wait!! When did you turn gay????

 

[TexasNomad]

Yeah... you may want to edit that brother...

 

[blackhat620]

I talked to my pre-luber gay today and he said that the most his pump could ever put out is 56 psi (normal 40-45) and it wouldn't last long before blowing the fuse. The 6.0L makes more then that, I think. Have to wait and see what Dave fines out.

Be curious to see what Dave finds out, but if it is another oil seal in the turbo then i would be suspicious of the pre-luber.
The pre-luber may be putting out to much pressure when the engine & oil are cold, and depending hos the pre-luber is plumbed, it may be bypassing the built in safety pressure bypass valves. There is a pressure bypass valve at the oil cooler & oil filter ( 20 & 25 psi differntial respectively). Main bypass valve at the LPOP is set at 75 psi. Yes the engine will see 40-45 psi when cruising down the road, but a non-running engine with cold oil the pre-luber may be causing the turbo oil seal to fail prematurely.

 

[d-kuzmen]

Be curious to see what Dave finds out, but if it is another oil seal in the turbo then i would be suspicious of the pre-luber.
The pre-luber may be putting out to much pressure when the engine & oil are cold, and depending hos the pre-luber is plumbed, it may be bypassing the built in safety pressure bypass valves. There is a pressure bypass valve at the oil cooler & oil filter ( 20 & 25 psi differntial respectively). Main bypass valve at the LPOP is set at 75 psi. Yes the engine will see 40-45 psi when cruising down the road, but a non-running engine with cold oil the pre-luber may be causing the turbo oil seal to fail prematurely.

Well I got the new turbo on today, hooked up a oil psi gauge, fired it engine oil temp 68 degrees, 100psi at idle, 2200 rpm 120+ psi. After the engine is warmed 188 degrees oil psi at idle 35-47psi or so, 2200 rpm almost 100psi. So I call Ford talk to a couple guys there, both said this is normal and any book that gives a spec is wrong, second guy told me that it was just a fluke that the turbo seal blew out again, says ship the truck. Anyways I hooked up a oil psi gauge on my 6.0 wrecker at work and verified oil psi's were close maybe a 10 to 15 psi difference. So thats where we are right now. Im at a loss here because I don't know who's right and who's wrong.

 

[slowmans]

thanks for the update!!!

 

[blacksnapon]

Well I got the new turbo on today, hooked up a oil psi gauge, fired it engine oil temp 68 degrees, 100psi at idle, 2200 rpm 120+ psi. After the engine is warmed 188 degrees oil psi at idle 35-47psi or so, 2200 rpm almost 100psi. So I call Ford talk to a couple guys there, both said this is normal and any book that gives a spec is wrong, second guy told me that it was just a fluke that the turbo seal blew out again, says ship the truck. Anyways I hooked up a oil psi gauge on my 6.0 wrecker at work and verified oil psi's were close maybe a 10 to 15 psi difference. So thats where we are right now. Im at a loss here because I don't know who's right and who's wrong.

Could the original turbo have a suspect bearing taking out the seal?

 

[blackhat620]

Well I got the new turbo on today, hooked up a oil psi gauge, fired it engine oil temp 68 degrees, 100psi at idle, 2200 rpm 120+ psi. After the engine is warmed 188 degrees oil psi at idle 35-47psi or so, 2200 rpm almost 100psi. So I call Ford talk to a couple guys there, both said this is normal and any book that gives a spec is wrong, second guy told me that it was just a fluke that the turbo seal blew out again, says ship the truck. Anyways I hooked up a oil psi gauge on my 6.0 wrecker at work and verified oil psi's were close maybe a 10 to 15 psi difference. So thats where we are right now. Im at a loss here because I don't know who's right and who's wrong.

I'll i have to say is WOW! I have never seen numbers that high published. Since your wrecker is similar in pressure, maybe this is normal. I wonder if there are any Navistar techs you could talk to.

 

[suprdtydvr]

Well I got the new turbo on today, hooked up a oil psi gauge, fired it engine oil temp 68 degrees, 100psi at idle, 2200 rpm 120+ psi. After the engine is warmed 188 degrees oil psi at idle 35-47psi or so, 2200 rpm almost 100psi. So I call Ford talk to a couple guys there, both said this is normal and any book that gives a spec is wrong, second guy told me that it was just a fluke that the turbo seal blew out again, says ship the truck. Anyways I hooked up a oil psi gauge on my 6.0 wrecker at work and verified oil psi's were close maybe a 10 to 15 psi difference. So thats where we are right now. Im at a loss here because I don't know who's right and who's wrong.

The Gerotor pump is positive displacement and if I recall there is a pressure regulator on the discharge of the pump. What is the setpoint for the pressure regulator? Makes sense that the pressure drops at the oil warms up due to the change in viscosity. As a mater of fact looking at the "bible" it says that the oil pressure regulator is set to 75 psig at which point it is supposed to lift and relieve back to the suction. If the pressure regulator were undersized for the amount of flow that the gerotor pump produces (intentional?) then that would be the only way I could understand pressure being in excess of the regulator setpoint.

 

[d-kuzmen]

Could the original turbo have a suspect bearing taking out the seal?

There was no noise and I didn't see any unusual play in it I though that first too.?

 

[d-kuzmen]

I'll i have to say is WOW! I have never seen numbers that high published. Since your wrecker is similar in pressure, maybe this is normal. I wonder if there are any Navistar techs you could talk to.

The Ford guy told me the numbers he has in the books isn't correct and if I want to find normal hookup to another one and thats what I did. So who's right and wrong? Got me.

 

[d-kuzmen]

The Gerotor pump is positive displacement and if I recall there is a pressure regulator on the discharge of the pump. What is the setpoint for the pressure regulator? Makes sense that the pressure drops at the oil warms up due to the change in viscosity. As a mater of fact looking at the "bible" it says that the oil pressure regulator is set to 75 psig at which point it is supposed to lift and relieve back to the suction. If the pressure regulator were undersized for the amount of flow that the gerotor pump produces (intentional?) then that would be the only way I could understand pressure being in excess of the regulator setpoint.

Im not sure what it's supposed to be set at but after seeing 2 almost the same I can say it's not 75 psi. Im sure there are ways to tweak it though, shorter or weaker spring. The answers that I had gotten doen't exactly make me happy and im not 100% sure that it is right but after checking it to another truck this is all I have to go with, So i'll finish assembling the truck today and send it on it's way with my fingers crossed.

 

[satcom40]

Dave also measured my luber pressure ane it was at 30 psi. So it look like the luber not the problem. I did order a Oil pressure gauge it be here on Wednesday just to keep an eye on things.and will see how it goes.
Many thanks to Dave and other for your help. John

 

[suprdtydvr]

Im not sure what it's supposed to be set at but after seeing 2 almost the same I can say it's not 75 psi. Im sure there are ways to tweak it though, shorter or weaker spring. The answers that I had gotten doen't exactly make me happy and im not 100% sure that it is right but after checking it to another truck this is all I have to go with, So i'll finish assembling the truck today and send it on it's way with my fingers crossed.

I would think that whoever you talked to at Ford could interface with somebody at Garrett and find out what it is designed for and get back to you in a reasonable time period. The fact he told you that he knew it was incorrect but unresolved kills me. Especially in light of the troubles that they have had with this motor so much for support. I would be irritated as well.
I wish I had a true gauge or meter that is calibrated in psig rather that a glorified idiot light. I may look into that as well....

 

[d-kuzmen]

I would think that whoever you talked to at Ford could interface with somebody at Garrett and find out what it is designed for and get back to you in a reasonable time period. The fact he told you that he knew it was incorrect but unresolved kills me. Especially in light of the troubles that they have had with this motor so much for support. I would be irritated as well.
I wish I had a true gauge or meter that is calibrated in psig rather that a glorified idiot light. I may look into that as well....

I guess when you compare two of the same and there pretty close thats the answer. At least thats what I have to go by. John came up and I showed him the gauge on my 6.0 wrecker, at 67 degrees the oil psi was around 90 or so. He took the truck and is on his way home, im waiting to hear the good word, I don't want to see him back again (for a turbo).

 

[blackhat620]

The Ford guy told me the numbers he has in the books isn't correct and if I want to find normal hookup to another one and thats what I did. So who's right and wrong? Got me.

Dave,

This wouldn't be the first factory manual to have incorrect data. Since you measured two trucks that are showing basically the same pressures i would say that the 75psi limit in the manual is wrong. The odd part is that the two support techs you spoke with at FMC have no clue what the correct number is

Where did you hook your gauge up to measure the pressure?

 

[d-kuzmen]

Dave,

This wouldn't be the first factory manual to have incorrect data. Since you measured two trucks that are showing basically the same pressures i would say that the 75psi limit in the manual is wrong. The odd part is that the two support techs you spoke with at FMC have no clue what the correct number is

Where did you hook your gauge up to measure the pressure?

I pulled the pressure from the engine oil temp sensor hole. You would think since these have been around alittle while now someone would know. Doesn't really surprise me though.

 

[satcom40]

Made it home, no problems.

 

[blacksnapon]

I pulled the pressure from the engine oil temp sensor hole. You would think since these have been around alittle while now someone would know. Doesn't really surprise me though.

The first chance I get, I'll check a couple of them here. I've been checking them with a drilled oil filter cap, but I'll try a couple from the oil temp sensor as well.

 

[satcom40]

Blacksnapon- that would be great. Please lets us know what kind of reading you get from both test points.