Clutch Pilot bearing

[Powerfun]

Hi, I purchased a clutch kit for my 77 hiboy and when I pulled the old one out the throwout bearing and pilot bearing are different than whats in the kit, The Tranny has a build date of Nov 76, the motor is a 1971 460 out of a crown victoria and has 1970 crown heads. The motor had like a big thick washer in it where a pilot bearing would go. Did this vintage engine not use a pilot bearing? How do I figure out the right pilot bearing and throwout bearing?

 

[Fellro]

What motor did you buy parts for? If you bought according to the truck, it will be wrong. You would have to find one that belongs in a 460. being an older vintage, might have to spec one from a car or early 80's truck before they changed to one piece seals.

 

[Powerfun]

I bought parts for a 77 460. I noticed that when I went to put the spark plugs in they were wrong also! Thats when I got the casting number off the block to see what year the engine was. I will try getting a clutch kit for a 71 car that had a 460/m. When I bought the truck I assumed wrongly it was a 77 460.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

Rockauto's website sez the 429/460 uses the same pilot bearing as an FE/FT engine uses.

Measure yours to be sure...

6003 = 17x 35x 10mm (.669x 1.378x .394") 300i6/5.0/351w+m/400
6203 = 17x 40x 12mm (.669x 1.575x .472") 292
6303 = 17x 47x 14mm (.669x 1.850x .551") 429/460/FE+FT

That's just from one data base (Rockauto's) please correct it if you know better!
{edit} All I know first-hand are FE/FT=6303 and 351w=6003.

Alvin in AZ

 

[Alvin in AZ]

The motor had like a big thick washer in it where a pilot bearing would go.
Did this vintage engine not use a pilot bearing?
How do I figure out the right pilot bearing and throwout bearing?

1) That's an oil-lite "friction bearing", friction releases the oil.
2) Yes. Uhhh...no? Can you repeat the question, please? :/
3) Measure.

Butthead in AZ

 

[kiwi f150]

That large washer you have is called a spigott bush and is made from phosporus brass - very common on older engines and does the same job as what you call the pilot bearing - i would take the old bits you have down to the parts shop and get the counter guy to match them for you ..... saves an awful lot of frustration on both sides that way.

If you haven't got the spigott bush out yet here is an easy way to remove it;

Spray the bush with CRC or PB blaster
Find a solid round bar that has a flat end and fits nice and snug inside the bush then fill the bush with heavy grease fit your round bar into the bush and give it a solid whack with a LARGE hammer ..... a couple of blows and you should be able to hydraulically force it out - ivé found that a lot easier than trying to get a set of slide hammer removers in there.

 

[m78]

I had a buddy of mine make a pilot bushing for a project of mine a while back. He worked at a ship yard and had access to the oil impregnated bronze since they use it on ships a lot.

 

[BuzzGun79]

powerfun, i assume you have the truck tore down,if so remove the clutch assembly & t.o. bearing from the vehicle.remove the pilot bushing. inspect what you have removed with what you purchased,or even take the items back to the part store along with what was removed from the truck to match up the parts.you have a 71 mtr in a 77 truck & the trans is a 76.tell the counterman this & go to a good reputable parts store who knows what they are doing.they will get you going on the right track.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

That large washer you have is called a spigot bush and is made from
phosphorus brass - very common on older engines and does the same
job as what you call the pilot bearing...

Cool, never heard of that name for it so searched for it and two videos
popped up for the removal method you described, one using grease and
one using wet paper.

Having never heard of the "grease method" I made a puller to do the job
all it took was a 7/16" fine thread bolt, a nut and a bench grinder...

...it doesn't work so good on the sorry two piece needle bearing+spacer
Ford used on the 351w, it leaves the spacer behind so I'll resort to the
wet paper/grease method for that left-behind spacer since, it'll only be
needed for the one factory-manual-351w I plan to ever work on again,
so no need to make a puller.

BTW, Ford doesn't call it a bushing, Ford calls it a bearing like the Kiwi
said.

Alvin in AZ

 

[BKW]

Hi, I purchased a clutch kit for my 77 hiboy and when I pulled the old one out the throwout bearing and pilot bearing are different than whats in the kit,

The Tranny has a build date of Nov 76, the motor is a 1971 460 out of a crown victoria and has 1970 crown heads.

The motor had like a big thick washer in it where a pilot bearing would go. Did this vintage engine not use a pilot bearing?

How do I figure out the right pilot bearing and throwout bearing?

(sigh) None of you chimer-inners are aware of the the following, except Alvin's pilot brg info. Y'all oughtta be ashamed of yourselves.

No pilot bearings with a A/T. No such thing as a 460 with a M/T until 1983. No such thing as a Crown Victoria until 1983, and...

NO Ford or Mercury Passenger Car came with a 460 engine until 1973...excepting 1972 Thunderbirds.

460: 1968/78 Lincoln/Mark / 1972/76 Thunderbird / 1973/78 Ford/Merc Passenger Cars / 1973/79 F100/350 / 1975/97 Econoline / 1983/97 F250/350.

If the engine came from a 1972 or earlier Ford/Merc, it's a 429

The 429/460 use the same bare block and 1971/78 and some 1979's have the same block casting number which is D1VE-6015-AB -AB1 -AB2

HiPo 429 Passenger Cars were available with a M/T, use the SAME pilot bearing as 1965/76 352/360/390/427/428 / 1968/74 240/250/289/302/351 / 1974/77 Bronco 302 / 1977/79 F100/350 351M/400 and etc etc etc.

D8TZ-7600-A (replaced B8A-7600-A, C8AZ-7600-A, D1TZ-7600-A).. Pilot Bearing ~ Needle bearing type replaced bronze bushing.

 

[kiwi f150]

Only trouble is Bill is that his engine and manual tranny combo could be from anywhere and only god knows where the flywheel came from - i think we would need some pics of the bits that he has so then a more thorough diagnosis could be given - in my short time working on vehicles (before i became a booze pourer again) i came across many things that the book just said never existed.

I still think his best solution is to go down to his local parts guy with the bits that need replacing and get them matched up.

 

[BuzzGun79]

Easy Bill....lol you are well versed in your part knowlege of what vehicles came with from the FACTORY.this case is different & only god knows where the motor & trans came from.thats why i suggested he take his old parts to the part store & have them matched up.he can then have the parts cross referenced to see what vehicles the parts might have come from.his truck is 34 yrs old & im sure you know as well as i ,some people can do some strange things to an older vehicle over a period of time & it gets lost when the vehicles are sold & not given the details of what was done to it.

 

[BKW]

OP said so-called 460 came from a 1971 Ford (prolly an LTD or Galaxie, since there were no Crown Vics until 1983).

1968/71: It ain't a 460 unless it came from a Lincoln / 1972: It ain't a 460 unless it came from a Lincoln or Thunderbird. I doubt a 460 was swapped into a 1971 Ford.

DOVE heads were used on all 1970/71 429's and 460's.

The same block and block casting number were used 1971/73 for 429/460. 1974/78 and on some 1979 460's.

The bore is the same (4.36"), the stroke is different: 429: 3.59" / 460: 3.85"

What 460 in a Passenger Car had a M/T? None, all were C6's. First year for M/T & 460: 1983 F250/350. No 460's in Passenger Cars after 1978, none in F100/150's after 1979, none in 1980/82 F250/350's.

Mid-year 1979 .. Ford changed the 460, the block casting number is D9TE-6015-AB .. has a weighted spacer (external balance).

The harmonic balancer and flywheel are not the same as used with D1VE blocks.

Since this was a running change, that occurred at all the assembly plants, there is no before/from certain serial numbers or production dates.

The block casting number must be known to get the correct parts.

Every day, I see wrong info typed on these truck websites (I can imagine what the car website info is). Peeps chime in, many don't know, so they "parrot" what others say...but was the original info correct...or not?

I just about fell oughtta the chair when the OP said he got the engine from a 1971 Crown Vic...a car that didn't exist until Ford changed the name LTD to Crown Vic in 1983.

And you wanna know why? Because in 1983, Ford introduced two new mid-sized Fox body cars (actually were re-skinned 1981/82 Granada's)...calling them the Ford LTD and Mercury Marquis.

Just as confusing as the 1977/79 LTD II that was Ford's idiotic name for the Torino replacement. An LTD II ain't an LTD!

 

[BuzzGun79]

Bill i gotta laugh out of it to.many people of todays generation refer the older LTD to the Crown vic.they were not around back in the day like we were.being a Ford man myself,i couldnt agree more with you.

The project 1979 F250 4x4
460/C-6 sittin high on 38" mudders

 

[BKW]

Bill i gotta laugh out of it to.many people of todays generation refer the older LTD to the Crown vic.they were not around back in the day like we were

All they have ta do is read the nameplates that are scattered all over the cars.

You won't see Crown Vic until 1983...uh...that is if you discount the other Crown Vics.

1955/56 Ford Crown Victoria hardtops had a basket handle moulding that went up over the roof, a plexiglass panel above the front seat.

1956's are super rare, as are the Merc "Sun Valley" versions.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

...except Alvin's pilot bearing info.

Thanks Bill.

But I don't know nothing about any of the models and years either! :/
Never really wanted to ...especially the cars, I never liked cars. :/
YMMV

Anyway, I got my information from Rockauto. LOL

Dumber than you thought in AZ

 

[Powerfun]

Thanks for the info guy, my block is D1ve 6015A with DOVE heads and it says 460 on the block. I ordered the pilot bushing for a 429 and should be here today from Napa. They have the old one to compare when it comes in.

 

[Powerfun]

And ya at the beginning of my post I should have said LTD, not crown vic. A lot of the parts stores don't recognize the older 460, just the 429.