Charging system issue

[Blue_Mule55]

1995 f-350 one ton dually, 460/7.5 EFI , installed new battery, re-man'ed alternator, Bosch, ( direct replacement with what it had) E4OD transmission. The list of issues goes on and on but-!, While I was running a scanner on it ( PO 138,139 and 158- all O 2 sensor related) I got curious and ran a DVOM on the battery because, the in dash battery indicator, such as it is, went from 14 or so volts now down to the point of not even turning the engine over at all. The DVOM went from 13.9 and continued on a downhill slide until it got to about 8.5 and then it shut off. Now, the only thing I can think of in the charging system is, Battery, Alternator and possibly the voltage regulator, which, if memory serves me correctly since this is a ( I think) type B system, ( VR is within the Alt.) something else is going on and I'm just stumped. I've walked through the electrical diagrams and I'm just not seeing the obvious ( or I need to get new glasses ). Some where in this mess has to be an easy answer but I will be hanged if I can figure this out. Any suggestions? the guy I got this from was less than honest and I won't even begin to go through that lists of issues just yet. But I do know he did say there was a draw on the battery, thus the reason why he kept the battery disconnected. I'm at a total loss.

 

[DNFXDLI]

Was the engine running when that voltage dropped off?

Have you load tested the battery?

 

[Blue_Mule55]

Yes. It was. As an added experiment such as it was, I pulled the positive cable as it was running and the engine died. i.e. quit. the battery is now on a charger due to the issue of it not having been re-charged as it should have been .

 

[Blue_Mule55]

and the battery is new. as in brand new. fully charged by me before installing as I am all to aware of the item that batteries, sometimes , even sitting on the shelves for a few weeks or months aren't always fully charged.

 

[DNFXDLI]

If you pulled the cable while it was running and it died in that era of truck then I would suspect the alternator.
Whether it is the regulator or alternator would be unknown being that it is internal.

 

[smokey]

Check the fuselink in the cable going to the alternater. That will cause a discharge when running.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

Okay... Fusible link. With service manual in hand, ( Ford Publication) and having it opened to the only page that covers this year, make, model and engine size, on the BK/O ( I presume that means the black with orange tracer) that circuit goes to two fusible links but , at one junction it intersects with the Y/W ( yellow/white) going to two of the fusible links. Both listed and shown as " 12 ga. Gray. The Y/W circuit comes off of the alternator listed as "A" , from the sensing and switching circuit ( regulator). So now the question and it really is a solid one. Why then did the fusible link fail? I know and understand why fuses fail. Overloaded, sudden high voltage applied, etc. Why would the fusible link fail, when in theory, the alternator shouldn't be producing any more than what it's rated at in terms of both amperage or voltage? Finding the answer to that one would supply me ( and anyone else) with the reasoning of why the battery was pulled down to the extreme that it was.

And a second question: On my 1976 F-250 2WD 3/4 Super Cab, also with the 460 in it, I installed and set up 6 gauges simply because I don't trust nor do I like the factory gauges or as I've come to call them, " Idiot sticks". On that gauge set up I installed , ammeter, volt meter, vacuum, temp gauge( coolant) oil pressure, and trans temp. I pull my 5th wheel from various places I get assigned to so the trans temp gauge is very useful. How, in the name of all things holy, can one by pass the idiot stick on this 1995 F-350 2WD one ton 7.5 ( 460 ) EFI and not cause the PDM to go into a panic ? Do I by pass that battery charge indicator circuit or what exactly?

I like my analog sweep gauges and have come to depend on them a lot more than some factory readout. Any suggestions?

And thank you by the way. I sat here last night racking my brain on that fusible link but blew it off thinking, " there is just no way it blew". Looks like I might have been wrong.

 

[smokey]

To bypass you have to Install a tee so the engine management is happy with the sensor into and you can install your sensors for the true gauges.

 

[smokey]

My ranger blew a fusenlink I think I bumped something with a long screwdriver or what ever. It kind of acted like yours. The bad thing it tested with a test light OK but it was bad when I ohmed it out.

 

[dustybumpers]

NEVER run a modern alternator without being hooked to a battery, it will fry the diodes

I have blown Fusible links from giving hot shots to other cars, or like Randy said, just being in the wrong place with a tool at the wrong time

The PO may have had an Amp in there, and blown the link as well.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

My ranger blew a fusenlink I think I bumped something with a long screwdriver or what ever. It kind of acted like yours. The bad thing it tested with a test light OK but it was bad when I ohmed it out.

Uhmm. Well, in that case let me ask this. Since there are two 12 gage fusilinks shown and I haven't gotten into it that far ( yet- trucks in one place and I'm elsewhere, just got back from that location) what about installing a 12 gage fuse holder with a ...say....30 amp fuse?

Would make better sense and afford a faster diagnosis

 

[Blue_Mule55]

Chraging system issue

NEVER run a modern alternator without being hooked to a battery, it will fry the diodes

I have blown Fusible links from giving hot shots to other cars, or like Randy said, just being in the wrong place with a tool at the wrong time

The PO may have had an Amp in there, and blown the link as well.

I've never known that to happen before with all due respect. I'm no expert on this matter but I am gaining ground fast. Having done that very thing to one other alternator looking for a system fault, it did just fine after the fact , and the engine continued to run.

Now, because you and Smokey bear seem to know what's what, in stead of replacing the fusilink, what about a inline fuse holder , 12 gauge wire and a 30 amp blade fuse? would make better sense and afford faster repair time. Any thoughts?

 

[smokey]

A regular fuse can not take the load a fuse link can.
It will blow on the first start.
A maxi or mega slow blow fuse might work but having never done this I'm not sure. I know for sure a regular fuse won't work been there done that.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

A regular fuse can not take the load a fuse link can.
It will blow on the first start.
A maxi or mega slow blow fuse might work but having never done this I'm not sure. I know for sure a regular fuse won't work been there done that.

Uhmmm....well...worth a shot. Whats the worst that can happen. It'll blow the fuse.

 

[CowboyBilly9Mile]

Yes. It was. As an added experiment such as it was, I pulled the positive cable as it was running and the engine died. i.e. quit.

You should never, ever ever ever ever ever disconnect the battery when a vehicle is running; doing so is a good way to screw things up/damage them. Realize and remember, the alternator charges the battery and the battery runs the vehicle. When the vehicle is running, the alternator is either charging or not charging, it's an on/off situation controlled by the regulator and the state of the battery charge.

 

[dustybumpers]

You would need to wire it as a relay to fuse it. Best to find the draw, and splice in a new link.
Like Smokey said, the initial shock on start up would blow the fuse

 

[Blue_Mule55]

charging system issue

You should never, ever ever ever ever ever disconnect the battery when a vehicle is running; doing so is a good way to screw things up/damage them. Realize and remember, the alternator charges the battery and the battery runs the vehicle. When the vehicle is running, the alternator is either charging or not charging, it's an on/off situation controlled by the regulator and the state of the battery charge.

Dually noted and recorded. Now. I recall being told years ago when I went through the electrical portion of my 2 yr diesel tech school, that it was one method to find out if the alternator was in fact charging. I'd seen it done so that's why I did what I did. You are however very correct. So this calls into question whether or not that methodology of finding the cause would have truly worked to begin with.

In my searching for parts, I've just about completed the lengthy list of replacement parts. Now I'm posing a question to you , having taken note of the "charter member " status, pretty much because this particular year, make and model is much more electronic than my other one ( 1976 F-250 Super Cab 3/4 ton with C-6 and also a 460 in it) .

In the instrument cluster itself resides the odometer. According to Car Fax , when this thing was wrote off as dead, it was listed as 112,000 miles give or take. After having re-furbished the entire interior and putting everything back where it belongs, I did take note of a few things in the cluster that either aren't working or something else has taken place. The temp gauge didn't register , nor did the fasten seat belt, or the warning indicator for the charging system( battery symbol). The one thing that did give me an indication of something not being quite right was the item that the needle on the battery "gauge" ( such as it is) was that it continued to fall to the 8 volt range. that's what led me to do what I've done. dumb? Yeah. I know. Now. However, how much more is there on that I should be looking at to replace? the ABS light was on, so I replaced the rear pumpkin / diff sensor and that didn't go out. I've read in the forums here that presumably the ABS box, right side, behind the kick panel, "might" be bad as well. The tach. was somewhat erratic in operation and since I've not yet put it on the road I'm not even sure if the speedo works as it should. As you can tell I've taken on quite the little project but, I saw and still do see potential with this truck. As much of a basket case it may have looked then, it's coming along pretty well, when I can get to it. I'd like to be able to finish this thing off and get it inspected by the Washington State Patrol ( salvage titles have to have a full inspection before they allow you on the roads with key items working) and use I for the purpose I intend to use it for. 5th Wheel hauler as I tend to be assigned from one station to another and I'm hoping this thing will do what I want it to, when it has to. I'm contemplating having the trans inspected ( E4OD) and add a deep draft pan , ( adding 3.5 qts.) and more than likely installing a heavy duty torque converter. Then there are the gauges I really do think will help out much more than the factory standard to include the trans temp gauge. Any and all assistance, even over this medium of communication would really be appreciated . I've got the p/s pump and pressure hose to replace, the rear axle and diff bearings, seals to do and brakes. So, I'm willing , if I can just get a few tips here and there along the way from you and your readers. I'm not real sure where or how to upload pictures of this beast yet, but I'll figure it out sooner rather than later.

Thank you. Very much for any and all help.

Don

 

[dustybumpers]

95 also has a vss on the trans

E4od don't like heat, I use a larger cooler when pulling trailers with an electric fan on it.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

charging system issue

VSS? Vehicle Speed Sensor I presume? Noted. One more item I'll replace. the cooler has been replaced and added as well. the electric fan is a good idea too. what other little weird things should be taken into account? I've dubbed it, " the Ox" . for obvious reasons.
The one item I have had the biggest problem with is finding a radiator shroud to fit it. I put in a four core ( super cooler and naturally it took up quite a lot of extra room. Sliding that thing in and out isn't all that much fun nor is it very hard. It's just large like anything else I'm stuffing into it.




Thank You

 

[Blue_Mule55]

Okay. Procured the VSS @ NAPA and that'll also be going into it. anything else anyone can think of is more than welcomed.

Thanks in advance