challenge

[Beachbumcook]

Other than introducing unnecessary soot and contamination into the intake and oil and providing another failure point where coolant can leak directly into the engine (which under the right circumstances could result in serious engine damage).

Additionally, it provides no benefit either.

Yes it does do something good... the EGR makes liberal tree-hugging, environmentalists feel good!!!!!

 

[04Xcursion]

Yes it does do something good... the EGR makes liberal tree-hugging, environmentalists feel good!!!!!

You are absolutely correct sir, however that is not part of my mandate.

 

[blacksnapon]

Other than introducing unnecessary soot and contamination into the intake and oil and providing another failure point where coolant can leak directly into the engine (which under the right circumstances could result in serious engine damage).

Additionally, it provides no benefit either.

Again, if there is unnecessary soot and contaminates, fix the cause of the soot and contaminates. If the cooler fails, repair the excessive heat cause. Heres you a question.... how many turbos have failed causing a high boost situation, because of someone unplugging the egr valve, causing a fail safe mode in which the vanes no longer move, and they are more apt to stick in an undesirable configuration? Of course we know theres not that many people out there that do that (my customers reassure me that everything is stock configuration).

 

[6L PWR]

(my customers reassure me that everything is stock configuration).

Mine's stock. Compared to what it was.

 

[04Xcursion]

Again, if there is unnecessary soot and contaminates, fix the cause of the soot and contaminates. If the cooler fails, repair the excessive heat cause. Heres you a question.... how many turbos have failed causing a high boost situation, because of someone unplugging the egr valve, causing a fail safe mode in which the vanes no longer move, and they are more apt to stick in an undesirable configuration? Of course we know theres not that many people out there that do that (my customers reassure me that everything is stock configuration).

All soot is unnecessary..... When should you EVER have soot in an intake?

As to your question... I don't have a number, unquestionably there have been failures resulting from end user "adjustments".

The question still why keep the EGR system, I'm not talking about unplugging the valve, I'm talking about totally removing it, in terms of both hardware and software.

You asked why to delete, well, to flip it around, why keep it?

 

[blacksnapon]

Why keep it? We could go on forever with that question. Why have diesel, its more expensive. Why have bigger rough tires, they're noisier, take more fuel, cost more. Why have street tires, they're worthless in mud. Why have v8s, they're less fuel efficient. I'm trying hard to stay away from "if it aint broke, dont fix it!". The amount of problems caused by egr deletion, and the costs involved to completely delete it, aren't worth it. Why not keep the system intact, it doesn't cause any problem.

 

[d-kuzmen]

Im going to backup BlackSnapon, there is no problems with the EGR system, why waste time and money to remove it? It's the other stuff that causes the EGR and cooler to fail. If you don't like the soot in the intake what about the oil that gets sucked in? What happens when you crank the boost up to 50psi and give it an extra 100hp, tends to get some blowby, wheres that go right into the air inlet. I see too many people buy the Diesel see what it can do then want more so they mod it up, get excited about the power and all the black smoke so they run it at the max setting all the time untill the heads come off. Just my 2 cents.

 

[04Xcursion]

Im going to backup BlackSnapon, there is no problems with the EGR system, why waste time and money to remove it? It's the other stuff that causes the EGR and cooler to fail. If you don't like the soot in the intake what about the oil that gets sucked in? What happens when you crank the boost up to 50psi and give it an extra 100hp, tends to get some blowby, wheres that go right into the air inlet. I see too many people buy the Diesel see what it can do then want more so they mod it up, get excited about the power and all the black smoke so they run it at the max setting all the time untill the heads come off. Just my 2 cents.

I hated the oil in in the intake even more than the EGR system, rerouting the CCV system is one of the first modifications I did on my truck.

I absolutely agree that if you have a bone stock truck, have kept it in good running order and want to do no modifications whatsoever to the vehicle then by all means keep the EGR system 100% intact. However, once the mods start and the power levels start to increase (I'm not talking about 100hp, I'm thinking more or 250+ (500+ rwhp)) it no longer makes sense to keep the EGR system, whether it was in good working order or not. It simply provides no benefits and actually creates unnecessary failure points.

You are 100% correct that the cost of removing an EGR system and keep the truck stock would provide little to no benefit and probably more headaches than it's worth. But realistically no one removing the EGR system has any intent of leaving the truck stock. I know the cooler can handle extremely high EGTs as long as there is good coolant flow through it. There are things you can do to try to insure this (coolant filter) and I have no doubt that the cooler can be a long lasting item, but it is very inconvenient when it fails and there is no way to circumvent it to limp home.

I'm not trying to beat up on anyone with this argument, I think Ford/IHC did what they had to do to make this engine work for the emissions regulations they had to meet, it was done fast and it works passably, but at the end of the day it's just not as good as it should be. And truth be told the engine can and does runs excellently (perhaps even better) without it. Are there engine conditions which either contribute to or outright cause EGR valve and cooler failures? Most certainly; however these conditions previously would not have rendered the unit undrivable; this is the root of my issue with the EGR system. It serves very little functional purpose but results in unnecessary downtime and repairs. Not only does one have to pay for the root cause repair but also the incidental costs of a cooler and/or a valve.


In the end here my summary: bone stock = keep the EGR system; lightly modded = keep the EGR system; heavily modded = lose the EGR system.

 

[6L PWR]

What happens when you crank the boost up to 50psi and give it an extra 100hp, tends to get some blowby, wheres that go right into the air inlet. I see too many people buy the Diesel see what it can do then want more so they mod it up, get excited about the power and all the black smoke so they run it at the max setting all the time untill the heads come off. Just my 2 cents.

Ok, so now for my real .02 cents. Anybody wanting to stay stock or just slightly modded should keep the EGR system, I agree.

But now, let's talk about racing. Most of our real technological improvements in vehicles came from stock car and drag racing didn't it? And what did these guys do to their cars in the past? And what are they still doing to them today? Yep, they mess them up severly and learn from it and then finally improve on it. Vince, tell me you didn't mess with cars when you were younger. I'm betting you souped them up beyond what the factory called for. And I'd bet that you even took a few things off doing that too. I'd be really surprised if you didn't. It's what many of us like to do. It's called a hobby. I wish I could make a living at it, but I suck. Obviously. I blew up a $14K motor. But you know what. I had fun when I was doing it. And I will do it again using what I learned the first time to do it better, hopefully. Who knows. I may figure something out that changes the way things are done even on a stocker. To me, that's what racing is all about.

Ok, there's mine. Nail me if you want.

 

[blacksnapon]

If theres a lot of blow-by, more investigating is necessary. How about a baffle defective in the valve cover? Broken piston ring? Valve guide or seals? My focus all along, has been in stock configuration, there is no reason to disable the egr system.

 

[surewhynot]

I think we should pull the cab, just in case.

 

[6L PWR]

My focus all along, has been in stock configuration, there is no reason to disable the egr system.

That's agreed on I believe.

 

[blacksnapon]

Todd, I modded the bejeezus out of them, ending with a 67 mustang 428 cobra jet. BUT, ANY REPAIRS NECESSARY, I PAID FOR THEM. This thread started with stock configuration, was reminded that it was stock configuration, and ends in stock configuration. It still remains, there is no reason to defeat the egr system, in stock configuration.

 

[blacksnapon]

I think we should pull the cab, just in case.

TO CHANGE A TIRE?

 

[surewhynot]

LMAO!

I had to lighten it up in here a bit.

I am by no means a tech, but I am a butthole, so I'm giving my opinion regardless.

I have a daily driver. It is completely stock, as all of my daily drivers have always been. When I go looking for a driver, I find one that suits my wants and needs, just so I don't have to mod it. I still have my last daily driver, a 92 crown vic. It still runs great with almost 300K on the ticker. My current daily driver is an 04 Mustang with about 50k on it. I know these are a far cry from trucks and diesels, but the principal is the same.

Ford paid a whole lot of engineers a whole lot of money to design everything to work, work together, and be reliable for many miles. Who am I to take that into my own hands? Best left well enough alone.

I do have toys that are anything but stock. My expectations from them are different though. I expect to have to wrench every now and then. They are my toys. They are modded. That is half the fun.

Sorry for the interuption guys!

 

[04Xcursion]

Sure is easy to get at the tires with the cab off though

 

[Gunner]

Mine is a daily driver. No mods (other than a Tomtom navigation systems and a Sirius radio).

My F250 will pull a 32ft 12K 5th wheel at 75 miles an hour on I-44. And do it all day long.(I wish I was doing it more, but production companies are screwing us to death on living quarters)

It runs like a rocket, pulls like an ape, and gets EXCELLENT fuel mileage even compared to my wifes brand new F150.(Drove from Cheyenne Wyo to Hays Ks on 3/4 of a tank of fuel. Drove from Springfield Mo to OKC on 3/4 of a tank of fuel. Neither time pulling my trailer however. Made it from Springfield to Jal NM on 3 tanks PULLING my trailer)

Why would I want to mod this truck?

That being said.

What EXACTLY is the EGR's function in my vehicle, and how does it work? Exhaust Gas Recycle is what I'm guessing at. Sort of like a PCV valve I'd guess. I'd like to know because I've just passed 60K on my truck and would like to have some tips of things to watch out for when my warhorse gets some age on her.

One things for DAMN sure about this conversation. I don't know nearly enough about whats under the hood propelling me forward, and I DAMN well better learn some more............even at this stage of the game.

Gunner

 

[6L PWR]

Todd, I modded the bejeezus out of them, ending with a 67 mustang 428 cobra jet. BUT, ANY REPAIRS NECESSARY, I PAID FOR THEM.

As do I pay for mine.

This thread started with stock configuration, was reminded that it was stock configuration, and ends in stock configuration. It still remains, there is no reason to defeat the egr system, in stock configuration.

I understand you're talking stock NOW, but you're original post, as quoted below, says NOTHING about stock Vince.

Theres a lot of talk about egr delete. My opinion, its dumb! I believe egr issues are a symptom, not a cause. The egr valves get ruined from coking from too much fuel, excessive oil consumption, or improper heat (too hot, or too cold). You delete the egr, you still have the problem. PROVE ME WRONG!

 

[Beachbumcook]

Take a look at the link below...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_10_182/ai_94335257/pg_1

Was written in 2002 in preparation of the launch of the 6.0L PSD motor in 2003.

I for one think the 6.0L has more than enough power for the "average user" and for those of us who can not afford to "pay to play". As compared to the 7.3L, Int'l and Ford already "tuned it stronger".

The story as a quick explanation of the EGR and other functions of the 6.0L motor. As technology progresses, change or delete one function (such as the EGR all-together) and it will throw off the programing and other parameters the computer or motor is looking for.

Heck... delete the CAT and back-pressure is affected enough to make the VGT (turbo) work differently as a certain amount of back-pressure was designed into the programing and the motor in general.

Comments????

 

[6L PWR]

Comments????

Good reading, thanks Beach. That's why those of us that Mod, change the programming. That's why those that are stock should STAY totally stock.