NYT: Chrysler In Merger Talks With GM



G.M. and Chrysler Explore Merger

In a related story:

GM Held Talks With Ford Before Turning to Chrysler

Curious to hear what Ernie will have to say about this....

I can't see why GM would want to "merge" (and I'm thinking it'd be like when they "merged" with Daimler-Benz) with Chrysler, though. What can Chrysler bring to the table? They've got nothing worth much in the small-car segment, and not much worthy of mention anywhere else in the lineup that I can see.

Except the Cummins diesel... Ooo that'd piss me off see a GM ruining Cummins.

dragogt said:

Except the Cummins diesel... Ooo that'd piss me off see a GM ruining Cummins.

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Why? Daimler already did that before they sold off Chrysler. Daimler hung around just long enough to ruin the Cummins with bluetec technology, but not long enough to fix it.Fuggin' Cummins 6.7 is the diesel from hell right now- makes a Ford 6.0 look the model of reliability.

From someone who watched the Daimler-Chrysler merger, first hand at a dealer level- MB did everything possible to destroy Chrysler. Chrysler came to the wedding altar with a boat load of cash, a fresh product line, and a sales revival in progress.

Daimler first drop-kicked Chrysler's senior management and replaced them with homies that could barely find their way around town, let alone the American Car Market. Then they proceeded to dismantle Mopar's parts distribution network and integrate it into their own. Consider where Mercedes parts come from, versus Mopar, and you see what a disaster this process turned out to be.

While they did share some significant technology, it should be noted that technology per se doesn't sell cars. If it did, Audi would rule the earth. Marketing sells cars- and styling. The German's sucked at both. Good riddence.

Dr Z, lol...

Haha at General Mopar, what would happen to the overlapping brands though?

haha a viper with a LS1

a corvette with a V10

haha

polarbear said:

Why? Daimler already did that before they sold off Chrysler. Daimler hung around just long enough to ruin the Cummins with bluetec technology, but not long enough to fix it.

Fuggin' Cummins 6.7 is the diesel from hell right now- makes a Ford 6.0 look the model of reliability.

From someone who watched the Daimler-Chrysler merger, first hand at a dealer level- MB did everything possible to destroy Chrysler. Chrysler came to the wedding altar with a boat load of cash, a fresh product line, and a sales revival in progress.

Daimler first drop-kicked Chrysler's senior management and replaced them with homies that could barely find their way around town, let alone the American Car Market. Then they proceeded to dismantle Mopar's parts distribution network and integrate it into their own. Consider where Mercedes parts come from, versus Mopar, and you see what a disaster this process turned out to be.

While they did share some significant technology, it should be noted that technology per se doesn't sell cars. If it did, Audi would rule the earth. Marketing sells cars- and styling. The German's sucked at both. Good riddence.

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I here ya. But what i meant to say was GM running a Cummins diesel. My bad

Ah. No chance of that- Duramax/Allison is the powertrain to beat right now, and nothing GM has would even accomodate that Cummins. Thankfully.

On another note- those talks, I'm told, might be further along than said analysts are saying.

If GM ran cummins they would be stupid as all hell.

The Duramax makes a TON more power than the cummins and better MPG

In a 'merger' I doubt we would see mingling product lines. They would probably begin to use the same types of pieces to assemble... Suspension parts, wire harnesses, things like seat manufacturers, sharing almost anything electrical...

Just what I would expect to see happen. Shared suppliers and whatnot would bring down cost per parts. The unions are going to swallow all of these companies anyway.

Ryan

Chrylser comes back out with 5.9 24 valve, with an allison would equal $$.

Cummins is famous dude, reliablity like no other, im sorry hands down cummins

1 cummins 5.9 12 or 24 valve
2 7.3 INternational 444
3 Duracrap


ill be honest with you, if they put a cummins in a chevy pickup, id by it. With allison's planetary clutch assembly in there transmission, there almost bullet proof, matched behind the power of any cummins particular a 5.9 24 valve, with a turned up injection pump and and a bigger turbo. that would the truck to set your standards to.

doubt it will ever happen tho! You can put an allison behind anything now adays with adapaters and what not.

ive had a few beers excuse my spelling and what not

NEWS FLASH: "It's official. Hell has frozen over. Film at 11"

Gunner

A_G said:

Chrylser comes back out with 5.9 24 valve, with an allison would equal $$.

Cummins is famous dude, reliablity like no other, im sorry hands down cummins

1 cummins 5.9 12 or 24 valve
2 7.3 INternational 444
3 Duracrap


ill be honest with you, if they put a cummins in a chevy pickup, id by it. With allison's planetary clutch assembly in there transmission, there almost bullet proof, matched behind the power of any cummins particular a 5.9 24 valve, with a turned up injection pump and and a bigger turbo. that would the truck to set your standards to.

doubt it will ever happen tho! You can put an allison behind anything now adays with adapaters and what not.

ive had a few beers excuse my spelling and what not

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i would have to agree with you on that one. the cummins motor is just built extremely well and can handle a shit ton for what it is. the 7.3T is definitely right behind it with the duramax coming in 3rd

Problem is, two of the three motors listed aren't in production anymore because they can't pass emissions- and that ain't gonna change. That leaves us with the 6.7 cummins, Ford's 6.4 (and whatever comes next), and the D-Max.

None of which would be relevant to a GM/mopar merger, since Dodge really does draw from a different buyer group than GM, and always has.

Realistically, if this actually does happen, I see Jeeps, Mini-vans, and Dodge pickups surviving, and the rest of the lineup getting vaporized.

Chrysler has no "ownership" of Cummins, right? So all GM stands to get as far as that's concerned is the right to use the engines in pickups?

polarbear said:

Realistically, if this actually does happen, I see Jeeps, Mini-vans, and Dodge pickups surviving, and the rest of the lineup getting vaporized.

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What about all the dealerships? And why does GM think this is a good thing for them? I just don't quite get it: Jeep is desirable but can't be THAT big a money-maker, mini-vans are a disappearing market (admittedly one GM never quite hit ) and if Dodge just went bankrupt, a bunch of their buyers would wind up at Chevy, anyway.

I'm no businessman, and I don't follow the industry that closely...this just seems looks like GM acquiring a lot of dead weight at a time they REALLY don't need it.

john112deere said:

Chrysler has no "ownership" of Cummins, right? So all GM got as far as that's concerned is the right to use the engines in pickups?



What about all the dealerships? And why does GM think this is a good thing for them? I just don't quite get it: Jeep is desirable but can't be THAT big a money-maker, mini-vans are a disappearing market (admittedly one GM never quite hit ) and if Dodge just went bankrupt, a bunch of their buyers would wind up at Chevy, anyway.

I'm no businessman, and I don't follow the industry that closely...this just seems looks like GM acquiring a lot of dead weight at a time they REALLY don't need it.

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Think of this in different terms Ian. 1) Chrysler has $11 billion cash in the bank. 2) With Chrysler, GM can lay claim to 75% of the domestic Auto Industry... and their workers. That should put them solidly on the Fed's "too big to fail" list- which is what this is really all about.

Either that, or Renault gets them (they already own Nissan).

polarbear said:

Think of this in different terms Ian. 1) Chrysler has $11 billion cash in the bank. 2) With Chrysler, GM can lay claim to 75% of the domestic Auto Industry... and their workers. That should put them solidly on the Fed's "too big to fail" list- which is what this is really all about.

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Yet again, I'm caught looking at the cars, when I should be looking elsewhere.

I think we'll see a whole 'nother round of big mergers in the next 5 years to a decade. This bailout is showing that there is such a thing as 'too big to fail'.

Ryan

Didn't Chrysler have some dealings in the past from Renault......when they bought AMC(?) Jeep (for sure) from Renault?

Blue Goose said:

Didn't Chrysler have some dealings in the past from Renault......when they bought AMC(?) Jeep (for sure) from Renault?

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AMC was AMC/Jeep/Eagle brands when Renault bought it in 85, and Chrysler picked it up in 87.