here's a little video on it


google had lots of pics too
http://www.google.com/search?q=f150+raptor

That is SO awesome. Looks good, first time since 82 that it had "F O R D" Lettering. Old school horsepower (the engine is very close to 390cid) and off roading. Put a boot in their ass the american way.

well that was dumb

EDIT: noticed you pulled all the songs posts out. just wanted to clarify that it didn't really bother me (don't want to get involved in forum drama)

Well if yall are through "typing" Toby Keith, I wonder if it will come in other cabs or just the CC?

Sorry...

Don't mind me, I let my alligator mouth over load my canary a$$ from time to time lol. But It is a Kick A_ _ song btw. along with Darryl Worley's Have You Forgotten.

That truck... badass. I love it. If they use this 6.2L, what is this engine actually based off of? Somewhere in the ballpark between 375-380 ci.

Ryan





(sorry, I hit edit instead of quote)

Blue Goose said:

Sorry...

Click to expand...

Lol, I couldnt help it.

What's kinda sad about this thread is:

1) That was a story from last April.

2) The fact that Ford need(ed) this truck to "Drive up Toyota's ass."......what does that tell us about their current line up??

2) The 6.2 mentioned in that story is back on hold again and the numbers quoted were EQUAL to Toyota's smaller 5.7.


This is almost as sad as Ford's recent ad campaign touting how they've finally equalled Toyota's initial quality.

Is that something to really brag about???

O'Rattlecan said:

That truck... badass. I love it. If they use this 6.2L, what is this engine actually based off of? Somewhere in the ballpark between 375-380 ci.

Ryan

Click to expand...

Think of the 6.2L as a big bore modular motor. (SOHC)There have been prototypes as large as 7L.

Last I heard, Ford has delayed the 6.2L yet again....

Well in Ford's defense, DOHC, the japanese manufacturers have a 'reputation' from the 90's about being 'more reliable.' Don't tell me you don't know people that hear the word Toyota and instantly think 'reliable' even though Ford makes quality vehicles.

Toyota's marketing has been relentless for about a decade. They're firing shots across the bow and seeing what works.

Ryan

I buy that Ryan. The Tundra follows the Titan marketing strategy- basic frame and chassis design from a Chebbie.... couple/three generations ago (especially that frame- holy crap), but throw in a uber-motor to show you're serious. Problem was, it didn't work for Nissan and I don't think 'Yota will have much better luck.

In Toyota's case, the $4.00/gal fuel pretty much ended the party before it started.

polarbear said:

I buy that Ryan. The Tundra follows the Titan marketing strategy- basic frame and chassis design from a Chebbie.... couple/three generations ago (especially that frame- holy crap), but throw in a uber-motor to show you're serious. Problem was, it didn't work for Nissan and I don't think 'Yota will have much better luck.

In Toyota's case, the $4.00/gal fuel pretty much ended the party before it started.

Click to expand...

Actually, GM copied Nissan's frame..........it only took them 3 years to do it!!!.


(Ford and Nissan both introduced fully boxed frames in '04)


FYI, niether GM or Ford has ever had a fully boxed front, DOUBLE WALLED middle section frame.


IMHO, Nissans failure was due to the fact that there was absolutely no variations in models......that and they had wimpy Dana 44's trying to harnass incredible power and wimpy Ford sized brakes.


I've axed this question on many boards and have NEVER received an answer.

If ANYONE can answer it, I know you (Ernie) can:

Out of the 750,000+- Fords sold last year...

Out of the 800,000+- GM's sold last year...

What is the breakdown?


I KNOW Toyota sold 200,000 1/2 tons.......pretty damned impressive; horrible frame and all


But I digress......1/2 ton truck sales will be the most affected by the BS fuel prices since, IMHO, they are mostly used for recreational/personal use.

O'Rattlecan said:

Well in Ford's defense, DOHC, the japanese manufacturers have a 'reputation' from the 90's about being 'more reliable.' Don't tell me you don't know people that hear the word Toyota and instantly think 'reliable' even though Ford makes quality vehicles.

Toyota's marketing has been relentless for about a decade. They're firing shots across the bow and seeing what works.

Ryan

Click to expand...

I understand completely what they're trying to do........It just sounds sooooo defeatest(???) to me.

It translates to me like this:


"Hey everyone, we know we were junk for a looong time, but we've FINALLY caught that pesky Toyota......all you people that bought Toyotas were right, but at least NOW you now we're just as good."

DOHCmarauder said:

Actually, GM copied Nissan's frame..........it only took them 3 years to do it!!!.


(Ford and Nissan both introduced fully boxed frames in '04)


FYI, niether GM or Ford has ever had a fully boxed front, DOUBLE WALLED middle section frame.


IMHO, Nissans failure was due to the fact that there was absolutely no variations in models......that and they had wimpy Dana 44's trying to harnass incredible power and wimpy Ford sized brakes.


I've axed this question on many boards and have NEVER received an answer.

If ANYONE can answer it, I know you (Ernie) can:

Out of the 750,000+- Fords sold last year...

Out of the 800,000+- GM's sold last year...

What is the breakdown?


I KNOW Toyota sold 200,000 1/2 tons.......pretty damned impressive; horrible frame and all


But I digress......1/2 ton truck sales will be the most affected by the BS fuel prices since, IMHO, they are mostly used for recreational/personal use.

Click to expand...

re: Nissan. I disagree. The failure was 85% styling, 15% poor mechanical execution.

re: sales breakdown. I don't have exact numbers, but I do know last year the Super Duty outsold the F150 in total. I also know the 1500 Silverado outsells the HD by a margin of close to 3:1.

Toyota has a stated goal of 200,000 units. Newflash- they can't get there from here unless something dramatic- like $2.00/gallon fuel, comes along. They might, however, hit 200,000 Tacomas- something no one saw coming.

polarbear said:

re: Nissan. I disagree. The failure was 85% styling, 15% poor mechanical execution.

re: sales breakdown. I don't have exact numbers, but I do know last year the Super Duty outsold the F150 in total. I also know the 1500 Silverado outsells the HD by a margin of close to 3:1.

Toyota has a stated goal of 200,000 units. Newflash- they can't get there from here unless something dramatic- like $2.00/gallon fuel, comes along. They might, however, hit 200,000 Tacomas- something no one saw coming.

Click to expand...

So if the SD outsold the 150 even by just 1........we're looking at aprox. 375,000 units for each.


3:1 for Silverado would put GM's 1/2 tons at aprox. 600,000 units vs 200,000 for the HD.

Some interesting numbers could be twisted from those figures.


The Tundra's 200,000 sales goal was for '07......they were around 4,000 short at the end of December '07 but exceeded that number if you take into account the '07 was not released until February. (12 months of sales)

I've never heard of a sales goal for '08.....can't imagine they'd expect to sell more than the intro year.


We'll agree to disagree on the Nissan.........only 1 motor, 1 cab configuration when introduced.

Not a fan of the Titan's styling but it bears a striking family resemblence to the Frontier which seems to sell fair in its market.

DOHCmarauder said:

So if the SD outsold the 150 even by just 1........we're looking at aprox. 375,000 units for each.


3:1 for Silverado would put GM's 1/2 tons at aprox. 600,000 units vs 200,000 for the HD.

Some interesting numbers could be twisted from those figures.


The Tundra's 200,000 sales goal was for '07......they were around 4,000 short at the end of December '07 but exceeded that number if you take into account the '07 was not released until February. (12 months of sales)

I've never heard of a sales goal for '08.....can't imagine they'd expect to sell more than the intro year.


We'll agree to disagree on the Nissan.........only 1 motor, 1 cab configuration when introduced.

Not a fan of the Titan's styling but it bears a striking family resemblence to the Frontier which seems to sell fair in its market.

Click to expand...

re: Toyota sales. Before the two (and expecting third) downward forecast, 'Yota expected to increase market share and sales numbers. The truck market turned horrible, but really ugly for Toyota because of the demographic the Tundra appeals to. This is not a blue-collar truck, but it's the white-collar demographic that's pretty much abandoned the full-size truck market. I'm going to jump out there and say Toyota's biggest challenge is to lose the "pickup for yuppies" image that goes along with their truck lines- unless yuppies start buying them again- all bet's are off. The image helps the Tacoma, which has always been the darling of upscale compact truck buyers everywhere... and compact trucks still sell.

re: Nissan. I'm in sales- eyeball is 75% of the battle going in. Why do you think Ford ruled the 3/4-1T market for so long? They not only built a damned good truck, but it was arguably one of the best looking ever produced. True for decades. Even after they screwed up the powertrains, they still built the best looking truck- and sales continued accordingly. Nissan likes pushing the edge (I'd say of good taste), but it really hurts them in certain segments. The Armada.... a '57 Rambler wagon on steroids. The Maxima.... OMG, what were they thinking. What's the SUV model that looks like a sneaker on wheels?

But- where Nissan's coming out OK in some segments is price, and it's paying off. Market's turned extremely price-sensitive.

polarbear said:

re: Toyota sales. Before the two (and expecting third) downward forecast, 'Yota expected to increase market share and sales numbers. The truck market turned horrible, but really ugly for Toyota because of the demographic the Tundra appeals to. This is not a blue-collar truck, but it's the white-collar demographic that's pretty much abandoned the full-size truck market. I'm going to jump out there and say Toyota's biggest challenge is to lose the "pickup for yuppies" image that goes along with their truck lines- unless yuppies start buying them again- all bet's are off. The image helps the Tacoma, which has always been the darling of upscale compact truck buyers everywhere... and compact trucks still sell.

re: Nissan. I'm in sales- eyeball is 75% of the battle going in. Why do you think Ford ruled the 3/4-1T market for so long? They not only built a damned good truck, but it was arguably one of the best looking ever produced. True for decades. Even after they screwed up the powertrains, they still built the best looking truck- and sales continued accordingly. Nissan likes pushing the edge (I'd say of good taste), but it really hurts them in certain segments. The Armada.... a '57 Rambler wagon on steroids. The Maxima.... OMG, what were they thinking. What's the SUV model that looks like a sneaker on wheels?

But- where Nissan's coming out OK in some segments is price, and it's paying off. Market's turned extremely price-sensitive.

Click to expand...

I'll agree 100% concerning the Tundra's market......it's not a work truck. Then again, I don't think any 1/2 ton (especially a 5.5' bed crew cab) is a "work" truck.

I know you're correct that Toy also expected to increase market share.....but you're forgetting that included the introduction of a 3/4 ton truck and a diesel, which have both been put on hold. I will go out on a limb and say that Toy certainly didn't think they were going to eat into Ford/GM's 3/4-1 ton (and in Ford's case 450, 550,+) sales with just a 1/2 ton model.



Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder............I don't think the stock Tundra is especially attractive. I think the current Siverado is FUGLY!!! Nothing more hideous than the current front end of the current Super Duty.

I seem to recall that the 6.0 PSD fiasco cost Ford HUGE chunks of the diesel market to the Dmax in spite of its better looks.

The GMC is a far better looking truck than the Chevy yet doesn't sell near the same numbers.


The Titan could not compete on a lot of fronts;

No regular cabs

No "economy" models (V6, manual trans)

Only 1 motor choice





.........looks may be one of them, but far from the only reason.


Oh, and the Fugly SUV is a Murano (looks like an AMC Pacer to me) without checking, thought it was fairly strong seller.

DOHCmarauder said:

I'll agree 100% concerning the Tundra's market......it's not a work truck. Then again, I don't think any 1/2 ton (especially a 5.5' bed crew cab) is a "work" truck.

That's changing rapidly. I'm seeing a lot of businesses re-thinking how much truck they need. A 6-banger half ton with a 1700 lb payload and a 5,000 lb tow capacity actually covers a good part of the market. What isn't working is what we used to call a generic Chevy- Leathered Z71 with all the toys. that market's all but gone.

I know you're correct that Toy also expected to increase market share.....but you're forgetting that included the introduction of a 3/4 ton truck and a diesel, which have both been put on hold. I will go out on a limb and say that Toy certainly didn't think they were going to eat into Ford/GM's 3/4-1 ton (and in Ford's case 450, 550,+) sales with just a 1/2 ton model.

No- but I think the expectations were a little different. Of course, cost of gas (and diesel) is making everyone re-think the product lines.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder............I don't think the stock Tundra is especially attractive. I think the current Siverado is FUGLY!!! Nothing more hideous than the current front end of the current Super Duty.

The new Silverado is OK- even the HD grows on you with a proper lift and wheels on it. Public likes it, and that's the part that counts.

I seem to recall that the 6.0 PSD fiasco cost Ford HUGE chunks of the diesel market to the Dmax in spite of its better looks.



The GMC is a far better looking truck than the Chevy yet doesn't sell near the same numbers.

If GMC had more dealers, they probably could. All those GMT900's are GMC's- Chevy's have "X88- Chevrolet Conversion" on the build sheets.


The Titan could not compete on a lot of fronts;

No regular cabs

No "economy" models (V6, manual trans)

Only 1 motor choice





.........looks may be one of them, but far from the only reason.

Pretty much missed the market by a mile. But, as you recall, at the time many "experts" predicted the end of Big-Three pickup dominance. And they were wrong. Again.


Oh, and the Fugly SUV is a Murano (looks like an AMC Pacer to me) without checking, thought it was fairly strong seller.

That's the one! Sells OK with huge rebates. Horrific resale though.

Click to expand...

Time for the old Bear to call it a night! 'Evening gents!