I'm trying to think of a fitting first pic and thread for this forum. The most fitting one I could think of was



"Paging Jack. Jack to the red courtesy phone please. Paging Jack, Jack to the red courtesy phone please."

I have to snap a pic of the "new" supercharged '98 Cobra's plate.....you'll like it.


Meanwhile, lets get ths forum off to a swimming(?) start.

Here's my current stable minus the Cobra/FauxBOSS/Early Bronco:





Open question:

PERSONAL feelings (read subjective) aside; how do the current trucks rate on FTF's members' list(s).


My picks:

1/2 tons:

I liked the Tundra because the top of the line motor/trans was available across the entire model line up.....there are a few other reasons.

The GM's were close but you HAD to buy the very expensive Denali to get the strongest drivetrain. This year my understanding is the GM 6.2/6 speed is available in all Crew Cabs. (Please confirm, PB.)


Took my sister's Mark LT on a loooong road trip 2 years ago......took it right out of the running IMHO.


Now, I realize my priorities vary from others; but my trucks are generally secondary/rec vehicles so things like MPG are NOT at the top of MY list.

My Super Duty did build my house so it did "work" a little but is mostly used to tow toys to the lake or dunes.


Try and not get personal and remember the whole reason for this section is to ALLOW other view points. We're not going to play the "This is a Ford site, why are you here" game.


Lets go guys!!!

I have to get this off my chest... I think the new Silverados and Sierra trucks on a nice lift and a big set of meats are pretty damned good lookin. There, I said it... Any of those Chebbie trucks for the past 4 or 5 years on a nice lift and meats looks pretty good.

As for the quality of the actual truck, can't comment too much since I don't have personal experience. But I do think they're pretty good lookin. No doubt--- I still think Ford trucks are the best looking trucks on the road, but the Chebbies take 2nd place.

Is it any consolation that I think the Dodge pickups are fugly?

Skandocious said:

... Any of those Chebbie trucks for the past 4 or 5 years on a nice lift and meats looks pretty good...

Click to expand...

I concur, although my favorite has to be the new Tahoe/Suburban, I just wish they'd made an SS Tahoe...

Having bought a few new vehicles over the years.

In the truck catagory:

I think Ford is still making the best overall truck. Based on MY needs (Family hauler, light household work and MINOR off roading).

I think Chevy makes the best equiped interior (with the exception of Fords built in brake controller which I do think will be the new standard very shortly) It has more creature comforts and rides nicer on the street then any other brand IMO.

Dodge, sorry but I see no redeming factors in the Dodge line up at this point. I don't care for the looks or interior. Sorry

Each person has to buy at the pricepoint that fits them in the comfort level they want.

CaFordDude said:

It has more creature comforts and rides nicer on the street then any other brand IMO.

Click to expand...

Full independent front suspension Has it's strengths and weaknesses.

Dodge has 1 big redeeming quality... CUMMINS jmho

Ford power? I say this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZdIv5YdcKWg&feature=related FTW



Also: One of the best Ford truck ads ever: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-iZuCLMem7A

no, this is a good Ford Truck ad

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KaL-IsCWrrI

1970Custom said:

no, this is a good Ford Truck ad

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KaL-IsCWrrI

Click to expand...

That was pretty awesome.

I can already tell this will be interesting.

I'll go with the personal (subjective) first, and over time I'll be more specific on why.

1/2T: I could toss between a Silverado and a F150 for first choice. I'm disappointed in Ford's powertrain efforts of late, but still think they lead the herd in features and overall eye-appeal. The new silverado was a quantum leap for GM in a number of areas- chassis and interior being the most improved.

Speaking of powertrains, the 6.2/6-speed is a Denali-only thing right now, but should filter in as a broader option next year. Whether that's an actual benefit remains to be seen, since, like the 6.0, it pulls like jack-the-bear but is also a notorious gas hog. Overall, the 5.3/4-speed auto still presents GM's best overall balance of power and fuel economy. Just for the record, my favorite Silverado was the 2000-2002 (pre cat's eyes) bodystyle.

The Dodge. And, I guess, the Titan, since it'll be based on the new Ram and built in Mexico shortly, as Nissan throws in the towel. I've driven a lot of new Dodges in the last year, and they aren't all that bad. They suck gas and ride rough, but overall quality is light-years ahead of where they were a few years ago. With a new Ram around the corner, I'll have to reserve judgement.

And, finally, the Tundra. Not many products affect me the way this one does. I deeply, seriously dislike it, on a number of levels.

3/4T's.

Hmmm. If Ford would offer a D-Max/Allison in a Super-Duty, it wouldn't even be conversational. The Super-Duty is, IMO, the best HD domestic pickup ever offered- by anyone. A pickup in search of a world-class powertrain... and they're still working on it. GM's offering goes the other direction. The D-Max/Allison combo flat stomps the competition in every manner- acceleration, pulling power, fuel mileage... name it (in stock form). The Allison offer's a manual shift ability, but the shift programming is so well developed, one really has to ask "why would you want to?" The minus column starts with styling (subjective), IFS (a benefit on-pavement), and some really strange decisions as far as options and packaging.

That leaves us with the Dodge. The new Cummins feels sluggish, has developed some serious service quirks, and is coupled with a transmission that hopefully solves previous durability issues. The styling is growing on me- especially when looking at Fords new front and and the Silverado. Finally, no small issue- a Dodge runs out the door for $3,000-$5,000 less than a comparably equipped Ford or Chebbie. That's not sticker price comparison, but what you can actually roll out the door for. Deserves a second look on that basis alone.

Big SUV's:

GM owns this segment (60-65% market share, depending on regular or luxury class), and there's a lot of good reasons for that. GM understands these vehicles aren't bought as trucks. They're luxury mommy station-wagons, and GM builds the best of the breed on the planet. Designed by, and for, affluent moms everywhere- that's the secret to their success. The fact that they have 4WD or can tow a decent sized trailer are completely secondary to their mission in life.

Skandocious said:

I have to get this off my chest... I think the new Silverados and Sierra trucks on a nice lift and a big set of meats are pretty damned good lookin. There, I said it... Any of those Chebbie trucks for the past 4 or 5 years on a nice lift and meats looks pretty good.

As for the quality of the actual truck, can't comment too much since I don't have personal experience. But I do think they're pretty good lookin. No doubt--- I still think Ford trucks are the best looking trucks on the road, but the Chebbies take 2nd place.

Is it any consolation that I think the Dodge pickups are fugly?

Click to expand...

I guess if we are going to get into subjective (looks) I'll throw in.


The Ford Super Duty is the most hideous looking thing out there with the Chevy grill being a close 2nd.

What's wierd is I think the GMC front end treatment is the best looking currently because it looks like the PREVIOUS Super Duty.

CURRENT F-150's look brawny......don't like Ford's overuse of the shaving utensil grill that they slapped on the '09's.

Titans look like Frontiers to me.


Tundra and Dodge are smack dab in the middle looks wise.

polarbear said:

I can already tell this will be interesting.

I'll go with the personal (subjective) first, and over time I'll be more specific on why.



Speaking of powertrains, the 6.2/6-speed is a Denali-only thing right now, but should filter in as a broader option next year. Whether that's an actual benefit remains to be seen, since, like the 6.0, it pulls like jack-the-bear but is also a notorious gas hog. Overall, the 5.3/4-speed auto still presents GM's best overall balance of power and fuel economy. Just for the record, my favorite Silverado was the 2000-2002 (pre cat's eyes) bodystyle.

Click to expand...

I was very disapointed in GM's overly intrusive Torque management on the 6.0. The lag was just too much.

The 6.2/6 speed was much better IMHO.

As far as the 5.3 being GM's best balance, even though there's only 2 MPG sticker difference between the 5.3 and Toyota's 5.7, the Toyota was alway a MPG BETTER in published tests while putting down nearly 100 more HP to the ground.


.

polarbear said:

And, finally, the Tundra. Not many products affect me the way this one does. I deeply, seriously dislike it, on a number of levels.

Click to expand...

I'll ban your arse for talkin' smack about my favorite......
But bring it on!!!
I'll agree that not many trucks have affected me the way the Toyota did.....but on the opposite end of the spectrum than you.






.

polarbear said:

3/4T's.

Hmmm. If Ford would offer a D-Max/Allison in a Super-Duty, it wouldn't even be conversational. The Super-Duty is, IMO, the best HD domestic pickup ever offered- by anyone. A pickup in search of a world-class powertrain... and they're still working on it. GM's offering goes the other direction. The D-Max/Allison combo flat stomps the competition in every manner- acceleration, pulling power, fuel mileage... name it (in stock form). The Allison offer's a manual shift ability, but the shift programming is so well developed, one really has to ask "why would you want to?" The minus column starts with styling (subjective), IFS (a benefit on-pavement), and some really strange decisions as far as options and packaging.

Click to expand...

Ford behind in the powertrain department......again???? Who would of thunk it!!!!

Interesting results from the ambulance company in town:

Everyone clamors for the GM's to drive over the Fords. HOWEVER, when jumping curbs/medians crews are tearing the crap out of chassis/suspension that the Ford Twin-I-Beam vans handle without a problem. Rumor has it the next batch will be Fords again.

DOHCmarauder said:

I guess if we are going to get into subjective (looks) I'll throw in.


The Ford Super Duty is the most hideous looking thing out there with the Chevy grill being a close 2nd.

What's wierd is I think the GMC front end treatment is the best looking currently because it looks like the PREVIOUS Super Duty.

CURRENT F-150's look brawny......don't like Ford's overuse of the shaving utensil grill that they slapped on the '09's.

Titans look like Frontiers to me.



Tundra and Dodge are smack dab in the middle looks wise.

Click to expand...

The new GMC looks awesome, though it is kinda taken from ford. 2004+ F150 side, older superduty front, and tail-lights off of an 87-91 F-series.

Yo DOHC, how you feel about the Tundra tailgates that buckle under light pressure? Or the axles the rear axles that detach themselves from the truck when in an accident? Or seats the break backwards causing spinal injuries in accidents?

Not saying I have any solid evidence against the Tundra's quality... Just know that I've seen some nasty stores about them and I was no impressed with the [lack of] attention to detail.

Here's a couple noteworthy threads:
http://www.fordtruckfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2811&highlight=tundra+axle
http://www.fordtruckfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2573&highlight=tundra+axle

I was very disapointed in GM's overly intrusive Torque management on the 6.0. The lag was just too much.

The 6.2/6 speed was much better IMHO.

As far as the 5.3 being GM's best balance, even though there's only 2 MPG sticker difference between the 5.3 and Toyota's 5.7, the Toyota was alway a MPG BETTER in published tests while putting down nearly 100 more HP to the ground.

Click to expand...

The real mileage difference is far greater than the EPA difference between the 5.3 and the 6.0. What shows as 1 or 2 mpg difference is actually 4-5 mpg difference in real-world driving. Another oddity- the 5.3 can generally meet or beat the EPA estimate, but I've never heard of a 6.0 coming close.

Know why I theorize the Toyota always got better mpg's in observed comparison tests? GM's remote-start feature can knock 2-3 mpg off if someone's not paying attention. In real world driving, I'm hearing the 4.7 Tundra's do OK, the 5.7's are gas hogs (we've taken two in on Silverado's just for that stated reason). Personally, I think there was more to it (isn't there always?).

I'll ban your arse for talkin' smack about my favorite......
But bring it on!!!
I'll agree that not many trucks have affected me the way the Toyota did.....but on the opposite end of the spectrum than you.

Click to expand...

That truck is extremely polarizing- and I don't think even Toyota expected that. I know of one guy that won't take his Tundra hunting up here, because he's heard of other's being vandalized when left out in the woods. One thing that does surprise a lot of new Tundra owners- they don't get the automatic warm and fuzzy acceptance that Toyota buyers are used to getting when they buy a new one.

Ford behind in the powertrain department......again???? Who would of thunk it!!!!

Interesting results from the ambulance company in town:

Everyone clamors for the GM's to drive over the Fords. HOWEVER, when jumping curbs/medians crews are tearing the crap out of chassis/suspension that the Ford Twin-I-Beam vans handle without a problem. Rumor has it the next batch will be Fords again.

Click to expand...

First they have to put a diesel back in the E-Series.

Skandocious said:

Yo DOHC, how you feel about the Tundra tailgates that buckle under light pressure? Or the axles the rear axles that detach themselves from the truck when in an accident? Or seats the break backwards causing spinal injuries in accidents?

Not saying I have any solid evidence against the Tundra's quality... Just know that I've seen some nasty stores about them and I was no impressed with the [lack of] attention to detail.

Here's a couple noteworthy threads:
http://www.fordtruckfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2811&highlight=tundra+axle
http://www.fordtruckfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2573&highlight=tundra+axle

Click to expand...

Depends what you consider "light pressure".

I've rolled dirt bikes and slid a fully dressed 302 over mine with no problem.

I've seen the pictures and think that it is weaker than the comp. But I can't open or close my F-250 gate without "special tricks."

The Tundra is actually rated safest according to the Insurance Industry.

Didn't see outboard shocks on the axle pic......don't think that's an '07.


Now, I will fully admit the teething problems concerning the launch.

30 camshafts. (which I knew about before I bought mine)


Let's look how Toyota handled it.

BRAND NEW COMPLETE MOTORS. 100K BUMPER to BUMPER warranty.

There's another site on the web where Ford PSD owners sit for weeks while the dealer shotgun trouble shoots problems.


Speaking of nasty stories:

How about Ford's cam phasers??

Stuck spark plugs....better than spitting plugs???

Leaky injectors causing bent rods on start up?? (Ford did at least up the warranty to 110K?? on the injectors)

Warp prone, tiny brakes.


There is no perfect truck.

I did not buy the Tundra on any perceived quality/resale issue. I bought it for the drivetrain/brakes/room/quietness.

I had also JUST got royally screwed by Ford on my 2nd transmission in 70K on my Super Duty. It took a high powered dealer to get Ford to step up on that one.

polarbear said:

The real mileage difference is far greater than the EPA difference between the 5.3 and the 6.0. What shows as 1 or 2 mpg difference is actually 4-5 mpg difference in real-world driving. Another oddity- the 5.3 can generally meet or beat the EPA estimate, but I've never heard of a 6.0 coming close.

Know why I theorize the Toyota always got better mpg's in observed comparison tests? GM's remote-start feature can knock 2-3 mpg off if someone's not paying attention. In real world driving, I'm hearing the 4.7 Tundra's do OK, the 5.7's are gas hogs (we've taken two in on Silverado's just for that stated reason). Personally, I think there was more to it (isn't there always?).

Click to expand...

I know I get close to 15MPG overall and that is with a VERY heavy foot.

17+ is a fast highway average. (4WD Crewmax)

polarbear said:

That truck is extremely polarizing- and I don't think even Toyota expected that. I know of one guy that won't take his Tundra hunting up here, because he's heard of other's being vandalized when left out in the woods. One thing that does surprise a lot of new Tundra owners- they don't get the automatic warm and fuzzy acceptance that Toyota buyers are used to getting when they buy a new one.

Click to expand...

Acceptance from whom????

The Tundra is actually rated safest according to the Insurance Industry.

Click to expand...

Wierd- they've gotten hammered on the .gov crash tests two years in a row.

I know I get close to 15MPG overall and that is with a VERY heavy foot.

17+ is a fast highway average. (4WD Crewmax)

Click to expand...

The '07 Crew Cab in the pic got 13-15 in town, 19-20 hwy pretty consistently. I'm a fairly conservative driver though.

That'll make the Silverado Hybrid (due in a few months) interesting. City mpg should get bumped about 5 mpg, like the Tahoe, but the 2-mode hybrid brings along an extra 250 hp to the party.