Check out the links below... Navistar stops production of 6.4L PSD motor due to contract dispute with Ford on contractal issues between the two companies and other suppliers!!!!

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070226/20070226005535.html?.v=1

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070226/UPDATE/702260402

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/artic...d=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=HybArt-C1-ArticlePage2

Wow... this will cost Ford dearly in lost marketshare, lost sales and wasted marketing funds that are spent to support this roll-out.

Here is an analyst's quote from one of the stories above:
"Bear Stearns analyst Peter Nesvold said that if the disruption extends for more a month, it could lead to an $11.6 billion in annualized revenue loss for Ford."

By the way, if anyone is in the market for a great running 6.0L diesel Excursion with 90,000 miles.... I will sell it for $40,000 (I assume market demand for good running 6.0L PSD will go up if there are no 6.4L trucks available????)... and if Ford goes bankrupt, mine will be a collectors truck!!

What a nightmare for Ford!!!!

Ford, still don't get it do they Jeff. IH has a lot less at stake in this matter than Ford does. While I really like my truck, and just could not see myself driving a GM or Dodge. Ford seems to have about the dumbest MGT in the industry. Crap like this makes me want to see Ford go under for good. For you to be in the financial shape, and then biting off your nose to spite your face, is just idiotic. I mean they could scrap the taurus, or the focus, or the exploder, or even the bronco, but to give up ground in the diesel market at a time when you have the ability to redeem yourself from a less than stellar intro of the 6.0 and then pull some crap like this? Come on Ford, is this really the best you can do?

mrxlh said:

Ford, still don't get it do they Jeff. IH has a lot less at stake in this matter than Ford does. While I really like my truck, and just could not see myself driving a GM or Dodge. Ford seems to have about the dumbest MGT in the industry. Crap like this makes me want to see Ford go under for good. For you to be in the financial shape, and then biting off your nose to spite your face, is just idiotic. I mean they could scrap the taurus, or the focus, or the exploder, or even the bronco, but to give up ground in the diesel market at a time when you have the ability to redeem yourself from a less than stellar intro of the 6.0 and then pull some crap like this? Come on Ford, is this really the best you can do?

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Very scary at best. The articles state that Ford has 50% of the diesel market and now this. Seems that some "hot shot" lawyer and execcutive committee must have thought that Navistare didn't have the "guts" or "balls"... but I guess they do. Ford and the other American manufactures wonder why the Japanese are doing so well!!!

I read a story on another forum board that "theorized" that Toyota may use a CAT diesel... but I read that Toyota would rather wait and build their own diesel motor before buying someone else's and would only allow their own motors in their own trucks....maybe they know something that Dodge and Ford do not... at least GM makes their own diesels with the Duramax.

I like my Navistar/Int'l motor... but I can not see or understand how Ford couldn't see this coming???

Oh well... for $40,000 anyone can have my collector's edition '03 Excursion with the 6.0L PSD motor... it maybe the last one Ford ever sells????

Check out this link....

Read the very last paragraph... ummmm......

"The dispute has the potential to undermine both companies. Both are struggling but Navistar may have a slight edge since demand for diesel engines has been rising. In addition, Navistar has been quietly helping Nissan develop a new diesel engine for the Titan pickup truck."

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Aut...tar_Ford_Feuding_Over_Diesel.S173.A11974.html


This issue may be more than just warrenty repair costs from the 6.0L PSD??????

Here is a look at possibly the last Super Duty Diesel Ford may have.... who knows huh? I really like the new motor and truck, but am so "miffed" at Ford and their executive committee for allowing this... that it really makes me wonder if Ford will EVER get out of their deep hole unless they file for bankruptcy and get relief like Chrysler did in the 80's.

Here is one last look at an '08 SD diesel.... may she rest in peace if Ford and Navistar can't figure it out very soon....

I'll hazard a guess that whatever internal group at Ford thought up this bonehead stunt.... they were hired by Bill Ford. He's gone but his legacy will have repercussions at Ford for awhile.

Does Ford really think that many of their Diesel truck buyers are loyal enough to wait if/when they need a new truck?

Amazing that Toyota now builds trucks in the US with US labor.

Toyota is now part of the NACAR/Craftsman truck series.

Toyota introduces new 1/2 ton truck during Super Bowl '07.

Toyota already builds and uses diesel motors in other trucks in other parts of the world... so it will happen... give them time!!!

Seems that to buy a Toyota would be like buying American... just like buying a Dodge is like buying American... NOT!! They are both the same and people will spend their money on the best value for the dollar they can get for their given needs. There is a reason Toyota, Nisson and Honda are surpassing the American's... and at some point... I may end up driving one of them after I stop enjoying my '03 Excursion... but until then... I am having fun with it!!

well ford has made it official that the 6.4 production is suspended. the trucks will be produced still.

Beachbumcook said:

Oh well... for $40,000 anyone can have my collector's edition '03 Excursion with the 6.0L PSD motor... it maybe the last one Ford ever sells????

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I still ain't selling my collectors edition 6.0. Of course, I don't think I could get what I got into it anyway.

mrxlh said:

Ford, still don't get it do they Jeff. IH has a lot less at stake in this matter than Ford does. While I really like my truck, and just could not see myself driving a GM or Dodge. Ford seems to have about the dumbest MGT in the industry. Crap like this makes me want to see Ford go under for good. For you to be in the financial shape, and then biting off your nose to spite your face, is just idiotic. I mean they could scrap the taurus, or the focus, or the exploder, or even the bronco, but to give up ground in the diesel market at a time when you have the ability to redeem yourself from a less than stellar intro of the 6.0 and then pull some crap like this? Come on Ford, is this really the best you can do?

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The thing about it is Ford's management never in a million years figured IH would go this far in this dispute. IH has Ford by the short and curlies........

Gunner

Makes me glad my 06 6.0 only has 33K on the clock and is running good.

Gunner

Beachbumcook said:

at least GM makes their own diesels with the Duramax.

I like my Navistar/Int'l motor... but I can not see or understand how Ford couldn't see this coming???

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Actually, GM partnered with Isuzu to make the Duramax. Ford tried building their own diesel in the past, and it didn't fare so well...
Read somewhere else that Ford hasn't paid for ANY of the 6.4's, so Navistar was loosing money on it already, so damn right they would shut it down. Stupid to not pay your suppliers...

Fellro said:

Actually, GM partnered with Isuzu to make the Duramax. Ford tried building their own diesel in the past, and it didn't fare so well...
Read somewhere else that Ford hasn't paid for ANY of the 6.4's, so Navistar was loosing money on it already, so damn right they would shut it down. Stupid to not pay your suppliers...

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The issue at hand is....

1) Ford claims that Navistar has violated their "contract" to cover their share of warrenty costs related to the 6.0L PSD motor.

2) Navistar claims that Ford's warrenty repair rates are too high and too expensive and that they are at a higher percentage than Navistar's VT365 version of the same motor/block. Ford did the electonics and PCM programing... so Navistar is staing that many of the "issues" are not their fault but Ford's.

3) Ford files suit last fall (December I think) and does not pay Navistar for December '06 and January '07 production of 6.0L and 6.4L motors.

4) Navistar, not being paid, decides to halt production immediately due to not being paid and files suit back against ford for non-payment and answers Ford's original claim of warrenty costs.

My conclusion:

Ford has more to loose than Navistar as Navistar may have to lay-off and close 1 out of 2 plants, but they still keep making motors for Int'l trucks and other people's trucks as well. They have also been working with Nisson on a diesel motor as well.

I believe that Ford never thought Navistar would "pull the plug" on production and will hurt their bttom line by 1 billion in profits and costs due to wasted marketing dollars, lost sales, lost service, lost marketshare and the like. Ford has 50% of the Superduty diesel business and is equal to or greater than Dodge and GM combined... but they may not be if the "slow down continues for more than 1 month according to what you read.

Bottom line... Ford fired the first shot and may win the battle, but loose the war!!!!

mrxlh said:

........I mean they could scrap the taurus, or the focus, or the exploder, or even the bronco......

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I know absolutely nothing about the diesel engines or the market for such, but the taurus was stopped. I think the bronco was too. Anyone seen a bronco in years?

The explorer outsold just about everything in its class for years. Unless there is another rollover fiasko (thanks firestone!) they are not likely to drop it.

They are however turning it into a car more and more every year. I would not own an 02+. Stupid engineers! I would hope sales are down with the mess they are making out of it.

Its my understanding, Ford has enough 6.4 engines for a year already. It is just another case of corporate squabbling.

Today, a Mich court has slapped an injunction on Navistar and ordered it to resume shipments to Ford. We will see if that holds up and for how long.

06F350 said:

Today, a Mich court has slapped an injunction on Navistar and ordered it to resume shipments to Ford. We will see if that holds up and for how long.

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Wow... how do you force a company to make and sell motors for which they do not get paid for!!!! At some point... you can't do it.... I wouldn't

blacksnapon said:

Its my understanding, Ford has enough 6.4 engines for a year already. It is just another case of corporate squabbling.

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I would be surprised.... no "just in time" supplier or manufacture would build that much inventory ahead of schedule. Even though I have no facts, I do not see anyone building that many ahead of production needs and tying up that much money??

What about running changes... what about the injector switch over on the 6.0L in May of 2004.... that is proof that having a year inventory is probably not the case. Some of the analysists have "thought" that there may be between a 30 - 60 day supply on hand... but not more.

06F350 said:

Today, a Mich court has slapped an injunction on Navistar and ordered it to resume shipments to Ford. We will see if that holds up and for how long.

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Do you think Navistar would be motivated to build a quality engine with this? I know in 1974, Volvo had a bunch of engines built with all the piston ring end-gaps lined up!!!

That information came from my dealer principal, dont know how accurate it is. They would just need long blocks on hand. The "bolt on" stuff might come from other sources (catalysts,coolers,egr valve,turbos, manifolds,etc.)