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Project Truck need some advice

HazzardMadWolf

HazzardMadWolf

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Western Ohio
It's a 1985 F-350 460 cu. in. C-6 Tranny NP205 Transfer Case. Here's the plan: since the truck is a 2wd made into 4wd by previous owner there is a lot to fix. Leaf springs need moved out shocks need installed front drive shaft needs installed. I am thinking about a doubler transfer case already have the 205 and possibly a 203 on the way. Any of you guys got one? Is it worth the time and money? I would also like to change out the C-6 for a five or six speed. I am not sure what kind to get that would bolt up to the 460. Any suggestions? Any advise would be helpful as I am new to the 4X4 world.
 
LEB Paul

LEB Paul

I like Broncos
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149
Joppa, Maryland
What are you plans for the truck? Mud bogger, rock crawler, mall crawler?

Unless you're rock crawling (not the best platform to start off with IMO) I think a doubler would be a waste, especially with the tq the 460 puts out, you don't need all that gear. On the other hand if you got yourself a smaller platform - an early bronco, full size bronco, or even a *gasp* Jeep - you have all the parts in that truck you would need for a killer drive train. Is your front axle a dana60?

As for transmissions, I'm assuming you mean manual when you ask for 5 or 6 speed suggestions - your best bet here is the zf-5 or even the zf-6speed used in the newer stupid duties (though I'm not sure if that will bolt up, someone help me out here??). However the zf-5 can be found behind 460s from the factory, so that is a good option.
 
Skandocious

Skandocious

Post Whores Make Me Sick
19,076
655
California
ZF-5 is your best bet for a manual transmission. The ZF-6 will not bolt up... Though I suppose ANYTHING is possible, but the point is that the bolt pattern is not the same so it'll take some heavy modifications.

If you want an auto trans then you'll only get as high as a 4 speed for that vintage truck.
 
Skandocious

Skandocious

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Yeah that's incorrect as far as I know. I believe the 460 and the diesels have their own bolt patterns; then the small blocks all share one. But maybe someone will correct me on that.
 
LEB Ben

LEB Ben

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Captain p4 said:
What are you plans for the truck? Mud bogger, rock crawler, mall crawler?.
Click to expand...

That is the most essential question

Captain p4 said:
Unless you're rock crawling (not the best platform to start off with IMO) I think a doubler would be a waste, especially with the tq the 460 puts out, you don't need all that gear. On the other hand if you got yourself a smaller platform - an early bronco, full size bronco, or even a *gasp* Jeep - you have all the parts in that truck you would need for a killer drive train. Is your front axle a dana60?

As for transmissions, I'm assuming you mean manual when you ask for 5 or 6 speed suggestions - your best bet here is the zf-5 or even the zf-6speed used in the newer stupid duties (though I'm not sure if that will bolt up, someone help me out here??). However the zf-5 can be found behind 460s from the factory, so that is a good option.
Click to expand...

Agreed

Skandocious said:
Yeah that's incorrect as far as I know. I believe the 460 and the diesels have their own bolt patterns; then the small blocks all share one. But maybe someone will correct me on that.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure you're right on that Chris.
 
HazzardMadWolf

HazzardMadWolf

Go Fast Turn Left
170
0
Western Ohio
Captain p4 said:
What are you plans for the truck? Mud bogger, rock crawler, mall crawler?

Unless you're rock crawling (not the best platform to start off with IMO) I think a doubler would be a waste, especially with the tq the 460 puts out, you don't need all that gear. On the other hand if you got yourself a smaller platform - an early bronco, full size bronco, or even a *gasp* Jeep - you have all the parts in that truck you would need for a killer drive train. Is your front axle a dana60?

As for transmissions, I'm assuming you mean manual when you ask for 5 or 6 speed suggestions - your best bet here is the zf-5 or even the zf-6speed used in the newer stupid duties (though I'm not sure if that will bolt up, someone help me out here??). However the zf-5 can be found behind 460s from the factory, so that is a good option.
Click to expand...
They put the newer Dana 44 in the front Dana 60 in the rear 4.11 gears. I was thinking of putting higher gears in it for fuel economy and using the doubler for pulling. Also the reason for the 5 speed tranny. Thanks for the info.
 
Skandocious

Skandocious

Post Whores Make Me Sick
19,076
655
California
Gear ratio and gas mileage do not have a direct relationship like that, keep that in mind. You can swap in 1.00 gears and run 100rpm while cruising down the freeway but that ain't gonna give you good gas mileage :rofl:

You have to take into account that as you bring your RPMs down further, you're bringing your engine outside of its power curve. Once this happens you're putting more and more load on the engine. More load = reduced fuel economy. There is a "sweet spot" that you have to hit by changing your gear ratio and tire size to match the power curve and drivetrain loss in your specific vehicle.

On a related note, people often think that faster speed = lower fuel economy. Also not necessarily true. You want to find a speed that is a good balance of keeping wind resistance down and keep your engine far enough into the power curve that it's not being loaded and lugged down. Example: I actually get better gas mileage driving at 70-75mph than I do at 65mph.
 
Skandocious

Skandocious

Post Whores Make Me Sick
19,076
655
California
And you said they put a newer dana 44? You mean its a TTB front end? Best I can tell from the pics in the other thread, your front end is 8-lug... If it's TTB then I'd bet it's a Dana 50. Or possibly a 44 HD? Was the HD version an 8-lug?

EDIT: Sure enough! The D44 HD is 8-lug:

http://www.blacksmoke.net/truck/images/tech/44hd.jpg
 
HazzardMadWolf

HazzardMadWolf

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170
0
Western Ohio
Skandocious said:
Gear ratio and gas mileage do not have a direct relationship like that, keep that in mind. You can swap in 1.00 gears and run 100rpm while cruising down the freeway but that ain't gonna give you good gas mileage :rofl:

You have to take into account that as you bring your RPMs down further, you're bringing your engine outside of its power curve. Once this happens you're putting more and more load on the engine. More load = reduced fuel economy. There is a "sweet spot" that you have to hit by changing your gear ratio and tire size to match the power curve and drivetrain loss in your specific vehicle.

On a related note, people often think that faster speed = lower fuel economy. Also not necessarily true. You want to find a speed that is a good balance of keeping wind resistance down and keep your engine far enough into the power curve that it's not being loaded and lugged down. Example: I actually get better gas mileage driving at 70-75mph than I do at 65mph.
Click to expand...
thanks for this info. I was always under the impression that lower rpm=better fuel economy. I do realize it is a hog of motor anyways so there will probably no real fuel economy, just trying to get all that I can.
 
LEB Ben

LEB Ben

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HazzardMadWolf said:
thanks for this info. I was always under the impression that lower rpm=better fuel economy. I do realize it is a hog of motor anyways so there will probably no real fuel economy, just trying to get all that I can.
Click to expand...


Chris speaks the truth...real life example...I used to have 3.55's in my 96 350 with a 460. I used to tow boats and campers frequently, when pulling (which sounds like something you will be doing) the truck would only get 6mpg...due to the fact that there was a ton of weight and my foot was in the floor to maintain speed. Well, I eventually swapped to 4.56's...more power to the ground, less stress on the engine and stayed in the rpm curve...boosted my mpg's 8-9 while towing. Personally, I think your 4.10's will be a good all around ratio for what you're wanting to do...and will keep you from spending money to find out there was a negligible (if not negative) impact.
 
HazzardMadWolf

HazzardMadWolf

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170
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Western Ohio
yes it is 8 lug. the numbers on the housing was 9f44 I believe. after researching it I found it was a Dana 44. I do not remember what years it was made, or if it is still being made. Haven't checked mileage yet but it's a 42 mile round trip to work and I put 12 gallons in every other day. I still need to crunch numbers though and get an actual number
 
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Skandocious

Skandocious

Post Whores Make Me Sick
19,076
655
California
Not to mention the cost of swapping gears. My gear swap cost $1300 for both axles. If I were doing it just for gas mileage, that's a LOT of gas. And maybe swapping gears would give you a couple mpg's more. It would take years and many many miles just to break even.
 
Skandocious

Skandocious

Post Whores Make Me Sick
19,076
655
California
HazzardMadWolf said:
yes it is 8 lug. the numbers on the housing was 9f44 I believe. after researching it I found it was a Dana 44. I do not remember what years it was made, or if it is still being made.
Click to expand...
Is it a straight axle or TTB?

Showing my ignorance here-- did they make a straight 44 8-lug? I know it came in 5 lug varieties in the 70s trucks.
 
LEB Ben

LEB Ben

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HazzardMadWolf said:
Haven't checked mileage yet but it's a 42 mile round trip to work and I put 12 gallons in every other day. I still need to crunch numbers though and get an actual number
Click to expand...

Damn dude...if the readings are accurate, that's right around 14mpgs...that's smoking good for a 460....I wouldn't change a damn thing if I were you, there are some guys out there struggling to hit double digits...most stock 460's fall in the 10-12mpg range.


Skandocious said:
Not to mention the cost of swapping gears. My gear swap cost $1300 for both axles. If I were doing it just for gas mileage, that's a LOT of gas. And maybe swapping gears would give you a couple mpg's more. It would take years and many many miles just to break even.
Click to expand...

Agreed

Skandocious said:
Is it a straight axle or TTB?

Showing my ignorance here-- did they make a straight 44 8-lug? I know it came in 5 lug varieties in the 70s trucks.
Click to expand...

From what I can see from his pics...it looks straight to me...and yes, they did make 8 lug 44's.
 
HazzardMadWolf

HazzardMadWolf

Go Fast Turn Left
170
0
Western Ohio
UTfball68 said:
Damn dude...if the readings are accurate, that's right around 14mpgs...that's smoking good for a 460....I wouldn't change a damn thing if I were you, there are some guys out there struggling to hit double digits...most stock 460's fall in the 10-12mpg range.




Agreed



From what I can see from his pics...it looks straight to me...and yes, they did make 8 lug 44's.
Click to expand...
yes but those are guesstimates not good numbers
 
HazzardMadWolf

HazzardMadWolf

Go Fast Turn Left
170
0
Western Ohio
also not sure if the front gears and rear gears match. I suppose I am going to have to pull the cover to find out, because there is no tag that I can find.
 

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