Rings not seated?

[Blue_Mule55]

Nothing in the anti freeze. I drew a pretty good sample right off the top and found zip. In fact it tested out to -45 , which is just about what I put in it this past winter when I went and had the super cooler four core done up.

 

[Fellro]

So I do have a few questions. Been kinda watching to see what all comes out. Anyway, first, what was your break in procedure? You mention that you run 15-40 Rotella all the time. My opinion is that it isn't really a good idea, as it isn't really what is best int he engine, but that is a side point. If you did that from the start, it can have an effect on seating the rings. I know, plenty of people run the heavier oil like that, but realistically, the oil clearances are set based on using 10W-30.

Now, I can't outrigth validate it, but I have been told by some old time engine builders that you should not break in an engine on detergent oil. I kind of get it, but at the same time, not sure. Either way, it isn't in there real long so it doesn't hurt anything to do so.

Main question I have though, is cast or moly rings. I haven't had a lot of experience with moly rings, but have heard many a time they are not the easiest to break in. They have a hard surface, which is why they are stronger, but at the same time, can give sealing issues as a result. I do recall there is a different honing pattern for moly than there is for cast rings. You must advise your machinist of this when you have them prep the block.

 

[SuperCab]

Good call on the moly rings roger... That is a good possibility

 

[Blue_Mule55]

Cast rings. I found nothing to indicate that Rotella is a bad item. If anything, due to the pulling of a load, 18,000 or more at times , its regarded as a better oil as it will not break down due to high heat.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

But oil choices are a lot like debating which political party is best. And that debate could go on and on and on.

 

[Fellro]

I do run it in my diesel, and I have noticed I go through it faster than I do Delo... so much so that I switched off to Delo generally. It isn't the Rotella itself I am pointing at, but the operating weight of it. It is a heavier oil than the 30 the passages were designed for. Think of it this way, if you have a tight passage way, which will get through better, a thinner or thicker oil. Actually, too, the biggest reason the manufacturers use lighter oils is that they have less drag. You give up a little efficiency and power from the heavier oil. The cushion is just as good from a 0W-30 oil as it is for a 10W-30. The key number here is the 30. When running at operating temperatures, both oils have the properties of a 30 weight oil. The 0 or 10 is for when the oil is at freezing temperatures. However, you are running an oil that behaves like a 40 weight oil at operating temperatures.

Still though, what was the break in procedure you used?

Also, it is surprising it isn't showing up on the plugs at that rate of consumption. And on the oil on the valves, did you also do the heads at the same time? They shouldn't be leaking that soon, unless the guides were not properly done.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

Break in procedure's were : after it got up and running, I ran the living pee waddin out of it for well over one full hour at varying rpm's until it was pretty decently run in. As I was told by several Ford techs in Denver at that time it was much better than trying to maintain a different speed running up and down I-25. After I got it cooled off, I did it again only that time I ran from Denver to Cheyenne WY up and back under a varying load. Kept a pretty good eye on the tach and oil as well as the temps. Checked and re-checked the plugs before and after just to make sure the fuel mix wasn't gonna kill it. Edlebrock 750 cfm parked on top of it in contrast to the stock carb. After 37 K the plugs have started to show that tan brown deposit but nothing of any real "fouling". But they will be changed out, to what I don't really know at this point due to the various kinds that are out there. The plug now in use is the Bosch HR9BPX set at just under .44 for a gap. Of the three ( or more times ) I've pulled the plugs theres never been any real oil deposits on them. Sure there is now due to my own mistake of not changing out the PVC about 2500 miles back but, they still fire right off and still, no real smoke issues. I may add that in the last three mornings, while its I the cool of the day, NO smoke shows....not even that faint hint of a puff.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

As to the valves/heads; thy were all done at the same time the block was done. Like I said in the process of this thread, everything got made NEW. ALL of it. And if memory serves me correctly, the guides were also done up. I bought all new ones for the install. I just do not understand why the oil consumption is as great as it is . At every point when I have been traveling across country, stopping for fuel or a simple 30-45 minute break, the hood came up and I waited for a while to check the oil level. From Denver to Spokane it lost nothing. Going back to Denver same thing applied. Denver to Elko NV , same thing, no loss and nothing showed. I'm very picky on checking on this thing because this is not my first engine rebuild or re-assembly but it is the first one that has somehow, seemingly over the last 14 months began to show this weird oil loss. And heres the weird thing that really tosses me : At times, winter and spring, sometimes it'll show a half a quart low. So I'll add that half a quart, measured out with a actual measuring cup in fluid ounces. Sometimes, but not always, it'll ask for the full 16 fl ozs for the qt. The freaky thing is, the oil pressure drop usually gives me that one clue its thirsty so I'll stop and let er cool off and drop a bit in to it , but only after I let it cool for up to 60 minutes. When I do travel on this beast, I don't get in a hurry with it and I don't abuse it. I hope all of that history helps. And I do log each and every time what I've done or added. Along with he mileage and date. Old habit.

 

[m78]

When you checked the oil, (and I'm not trying to be a smartass), it was on level ground?...and it was after the truck had sat for a short time after running?

It sure sounds like a lot of oil used in such a short distance without some sort of noticeable sign, like smoke or a big puddle.

Nothing in the antifreeze?

Did you answer this part of the question ?

At 1 QT in 185 miles , I'd be adding oil every other day.

 

[Fellro]

Which oil did you use to break it in? First oil change?? Although it is odd it was good for so long then started in. Then again the consumption rate now. Even my diesel isn't that thirsty, and Wally world oil doesn't vaporize that fast.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

Did you answer this part of the question ?

At 1 QT in 185 miles , I'd be adding oil every other day.

I answered your question if you took the time to read it.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

Which oil did you use to break it in? First oil change?? Although it is odd it was good for so long then started in. Then again the consumption rate now. Even my diesel isn't that thirsty, and Wally world oil doesn't vaporize that fast.

Like I said all through this thread....Rotella 15-40 ever since I have had it up and running.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

The fact is , oil types can be kicked around like the choice of apples over oranges . Or more direct line would be, what do you prefer ? Apple pie or cherry? Oil types won't have that much of an impact. If they did then we'd all know something more about it.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

. Presently using a quart of oil ( use Rot-tella 15-40 and only that since I had it built

 

[Blue_Mule55]

Level ground, as flat as you can make it and it is indeed flat. I've let it sit for up to 24 hours or more before running it again , and zero puddles, drops or anything of any kind on the ground.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

I dont guess anyone really bothers to READ the thread before posing the same questions that I have already answered.....TWICE

 

[DNFXDLI]

I think most do, but sometimes after reading a few replies a person can forget details of the original post....I know it happens to me....also when a question pops into my head I just ask it.
People just want to help you know

 

[Fellro]

The fact is , oil types can be kicked around like the choice of apples over oranges . Or more direct line would be, what do you prefer ? Apple pie or cherry? Oil types won't have that much of an impact. If they did then we'd all know something more about it.

I am looking at oil types from an engineering standpoint, the original designs, not a brand preference. When you deviate from design considerations, without making design changes is when you see troubles. It is science, not opinion. The weights of an oil make a huge amount of difference on their ability to protect and flow properly, which is why manufacturers specify certain weights and types. Thicker oils resist flow more, so they hang around longer. It takes more energy to make them flow, as well as different clearances to get the similar volume of flow. So no, it is not what flavor, it is what flow rate you need for proper protection. Flavor is a choice in brand. However, that is moot point for the question at hand.

Reason I kept asking about break in oil and such is that it was never clearly stated, merely implied. Break in oil is part of the break in procedure, as is the varying rpms that you were correct in doing. As I don't know you, I don't know what you do and don't know, so I have to ask questions for clarity on what you do know. Break in oil should be changed in the first 500 or so miles. You never stated if that was done. You had said you use Rotella 15-40, but never designated it as break in oil. I also stated I have had many old time engine builders tell me non-detergent oil for break in oil, then regular oil from there. That is experience talking, and is opinion based.

We are simply trying to help. I understand you are frustrated, and have been dealing with it first hand for so long, you likely also don't know what all has been said or not. I run into that when drafting drawings for new designs and don't realize I left out dimensions and details until someone that has never seen it before has to ask me about it. I will have been looking at it so much that it is ingrained in my head and doesn't make it to the paper.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

I am looking at oil types from an engineering standpoint, the original designs, not a brand preference. When you deviate from design considerations, without making design changes is when you see troubles. It is science, not opinion. The weights of an oil make a huge amount of difference on their ability to protect and flow properly, which is why manufacturers specify certain weights and types. Thicker oils resist flow more, so they hang around longer. It takes more energy to make them flow, as well as different clearances to get the similar volume of flow. So no, it is not what flavor, it is what flow rate you need for proper protection. Flavor is a choice in brand. However, that is moot point for the question at hand.

Reason I kept asking about break in oil and such is that it was never clearly stated, merely implied. Break in oil is part of the break in procedure, as is the varying rpms that you were correct in doing. As I don't know you, I don't know what you do and don't know, so I have to ask questions for clarity on what you do know. Break in oil should be changed in the first 500 or so miles. You never stated if that was done. You had said you use Rotella 15-40, but never designated it as break in oil. I also stated I have had many old time engine builders tell me non-detergent oil for break in oil, then regular oil from there. That is experience talking, and is opinion based.

We are simply trying to help. I understand you are frustrated, and have been dealing with it first hand for so long, you likely also don't know what all has been said or not. I run into that when drafting drawings for new designs and don't realize I left out dimensions and details until someone that has never seen it before has to ask me about it. I will have been looking at it so much that it is ingrained in my head and doesn't make it to the paper.

Okay, with all of that in mind, I DID change the oil right at the 500 mile marker. Which is why I kept and stil do keep a log of everything I do on it. You're correct, we don't know each other, yet. But it's a learning process. What I do know is this and it may or may not have impact or influence. 2 yr degree Applied Associates in Heavy Equipment repair and maintenance. Did the apprenticeship and got my wings in Denver so most of this isn't new or weird to me. But this wild oil use and non-use is jsut bending my mind at a 270 degree angle. Sometimes it uses oil, sometimes it doesn't. And at every fuel stop or rest stop I've done, I always always always pop the hood and let the old gal breath and cool off BEFORE I check the level. Usually the first real indicator I get is when it drops on oil pressure about 3-5 lbs and then I stop, let 'er cool off and check the level. Sure enough...1/2 qt or sometimes even a full quart.
I understand where your at in the design princples, but the thing that boggles my brain is what is the cause for it?
I've got a leak down tester frrom OTC and a compression gauge from Snap on coming which will be here, hopefully before the end of next week. SO in the meantime the oil will get changed, plugs changed out ( I'm still not all that sold on Autolites) and run it for a few days and see what happens. We're expirenceing higher than seasonal norms for temps( upper 90's and yesterday was 102_. My deal is, even after , lets say for sake of arguement that the leak down and compression checks come back in a favorable light, which I see no reason why they wouldn't, what the blazes is causing or creating this issue to be an on again off again item for the last 14 months when the only thing I've done differently is sometimes I drive it, sometimes I don't. So I dunno....It did sit last summer for 4-5 months but it fired right up and no smoke showed.

 

[Blue_Mule55]

I may add here that for the last 4 mornings running, on start up, there is NO faint smoke or even a hint of it.Nothing...