Classic HPOP Failure?

[blackhat620]

Okay,

I believe these are the symptoms of a classic HPOP failure/leak.

2006 F350 6.0, motor build date 5/4/2006.
39312 total miles (trouble free to this point)
3700 miles since last oil change
6715 miles since last fuel filter change.
Engine is stock.

Truck has been sitting for 7 hours, start & drive for 30 minutes. Stop, turn off, go inside for 15-20 minutes. Come out try and start, engine fires and runs slow like at 1/3 speed for about 5-10 seconds and dies. Accelerator has no effect on engine RPM during this time.

Try and restart, engine cranks but will not fire (tried this about 4 times). Full fuel tank, fuel at secondary filter on engine. Filter & fuel are clean.

Let truck sit for 1-hour, try and start engine fires up normally so i drive home, approximately 22 miles.

Ambient air temp 50F.

So what do you guys think, HPOP failure/leak or something else?

[d-kuzmen]

Sounds like a high pressure oil leak, usually when the orings go bad on the oil manifold plugs it'll fire cold but usually not after it's hot, let it sit awhile and cool and will fire up again. Needs a air test on the HPO system. Pull codes also, may have a icp code.

[blackhat620]

Thanks Dave,

I will call the mechanic in the morning to see when he can look at it.

Also it had zero oil pressure (no needle movement) at the cluster gauge when cranking except for the time it starts.

Hopefully it will be one of the easier oil leaks to fix.

[blackhat620]

So, i drop my truck off yesterday afternoon for the tech to look at. He didn't get to it until today. Service writer calls and said the truck is fine and they can find no problem other than the batteries are a little low (well duh, i cranked it several times saturday trying to trouble shoot and get it started then only drove it a short distance before i took it to him), he said low battery voltage could keep it from starting.

Tech drove it about 15 miles shut it off and it restarted fine. Then tech let it idle in the parking lot for 15-20 minutes (to "warm up") turned it off and said it started fine. Tech said there were no codes stored, and that the HPO pressure was at about 600 psi.

So i ask the service writer to have the tech call me. Tech calls and tells me i could come and pick up my truck as he could find nothing wrong. He also asked what oil & filters i was using and how many miles on the oil. I told him Rotella 15W-40, Motorcraft filters changed every 5k and only 3400 miles on the current batch.

I asked him if he pressured tested the HPO for leaks and he said no since it started and he found no codes. I ask him why not test it and see if it has a small leak, and he asked me who was going to pay for it. Then admitted that a code is not always set with a small HPO leak.

He then ask me if he could keep the truck for another day, i told him to drive it home over the holidays and keep it until it left him stranded then test it. So the dealer is going to keep it for a few days and see if the tech can get a no start condition.

Time will tell and i understand intermittant problems are hard to find, but this answer of no codes so nothing is wrong doesn't anyone except Vince, Dave & BTH do old fashion diagnostics anymore?

You guys have any other thoughts or tips?

[d-kuzmen]

Originally Posted by blackhat620

So, i drop my truck off yesterday afternoon for the tech to look at. He didn't get to it until today. Service writer calls and said the truck is fine and they can find no problem other than the batteries are a little low (well duh, i cranked it several times saturday trying to trouble shoot and get it started then only drove it a short distance before i took it to him), he said low battery voltage could keep it from starting.

Tech drove it about 15 miles shut it off and it restarted fine. Then tech let it idle in the parking lot for 15-20 minutes (to "warm up") turned it off and said it started fine. Tech said there were no codes stored, and that the HPO pressure was at about 600 psi.

So i ask the service writer to have the tech call me. Tech calls and tells me i could come and pick up my truck as he could find nothing wrong. He also asked what oil & filters i was using and how many miles on the oil. I told him Rotella 15W-40, Motorcraft filters changed every 5k and only 3400 miles on the current batch.

I asked him if he pressured tested the HPO for leaks and he said no since it started and he found no codes. I ask him why not test it and see if it has a small leak, and he asked me who was going to pay for it. Then admitted that a code is not always set with a small HPO leak.

He then ask me if he could keep the truck for another day, i told him to drive it home over the holidays and keep it until it left him stranded then test it. So the dealer is going to keep it for a few days and see if the tech can get a no start condition.

Time will tell and i understand intermittant problems are hard to find, but this answer of no codes so nothing is wrong doesn't anyone except Vince, Dave & BTH do old fashion diagnostics anymore?

You guys have any other thoughts or tips?

Thats usually what happens, yeah that doesn't always throw a code, but this first thing i'll do when I get a truck that won't start hot is air test it no matter what. Like I said normally it's the orings under the valve covers that go first. Good luck with it let us know how you make out.

[blacksnapon]

An air test if done correctly is labor intensive. Would you want to pay 5-6 hours labor for a no problem found? I'll have to side with the tech on this one. He cant guarantee that he'll find anything, so rather than upset a valued customer, he went that route.

[blackhat620]

Originally Posted by blacksnapon

An air test if done correctly is labor intensive. Would you want to pay 5-6 hours labor for a no problem found? I'll have to side with the tech on this one. He cant guarantee that he'll find anything, so rather than upset a valued customer, he went that route.

Well i do understand the tech not wanting to spend money needlessly. But since i had problems with it twice in one day and he only spends a little bit to time trying to find the problem, then says the batteries were a little low so that is probably why it wouldn't start, and there were no codes so come a get it, does not sit to well with me. It takes me a 45 minute drive just to get to the dealership, if it has to be towed i have to pay the towing, not to mention many times there are four people and 2 dogs in the truck, holiday weekend so everyone is closed, including car rental, lost time from work, plus i pay a $100 warranty deductible each time they look at it. It is not cheaper for me to bring the vehicle in multiple times for the same problem.

In addition when i dropped the truck off i told them to take there time do a thorough diagnostic and fix the problem, i specifically told them not to just rush through it and send it on its way.

I have worked on and rebuilt motors and cars for years, i know intermittent problems take extra time to find and can be a pita, but ultimately a good tech knows how to trouble shoot proplerly and find the problem. Relying on codes solely is a poor way to diagnose IMO. Not to mention the fact that the 6.0 has a track record of multiple problems, so it is not like they haven't heard of or seen this problem before.

[blacksnapon]

I entirely agree, but given the circumstances, he did the right thing. Yes, the air check would find the problem, but in todays market, you can't go by a hunch (especially with customer pay), you have to be exact. It is definately a touchy situation. I do see that you have been placed in a bad spot several times, and I'm not trying to lessen that. Lets say you have a wiring issue, its theoretically possible that it could do the same thing (which the air test wont find). The tech feels that you are a valued customer, and he's actually trying to save you money.

[blackhat620]

Update,

Service writer called today and said the Tech has determine there is a high pressure oil leak somewhere, he is tracking it down now. Said truck should be done sometime on monday.

[d-kuzmen]

Originally Posted by blackhat620

Update,

Service writer called today and said the Tech has determine there is a high pressure oil leak somewhere, he is tracking it down now. Said truck should be done sometime on monday.

Good to hear, sometimes they just take a bit to find.. Good luck..