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  #21  
Old 10-12-2009, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by UTfball68 View Post
Thanks for the info...that did help clear some things up. As for the 400/460 debate, everyone has their preference and likes to be different in their own little ways. Everyone goes 460...and I prefer a realm of sticking what came in these trucks. And the more I got to thinking about it, somebody not willing to offer more info on a product, just didn't endear me to them. Thanks again for the technical assistance.
I understand wanting to stick with "what came in your truck", but once you get past a 434 in a 351M/400, the engine block is not going to resemble the OEM block in very many ways, and a 496 is going to be a highly modified custom block. Not to mention the costs start become astronomical and the benefits minimal.

If you are building a full race engine, then you take everything to the max limit of the rule book and cost is no object, because the only object is winning. But longevity of the engine decreases and costs increase.

For an engine you do not need to rebuild after every race then you need to start looking at the realistic design limits of the engine. IMO for the 351M/400 max bore for a DD that you can tow and play with, without spending a lot of time rebuilding or fight heating issues, max bore of 4.030 and keep the stroke at 4.10. Yes there are several builds with 4.17, 4.2 & now TMI's 4.25 but remember as stroke length increases you have more piston instability do to BDC distance in relation to bore length (ie how far the piston hangs out of the cylinder), lower rod ratio which increases cylinder wall loading, shorter piston compression height and you also need to clearance the rod bolts and use a "small base cam". All of these things can be done but as you increase the modifications the durability of the engine goes down.

Bottom line building a performance engine is a series of tradeoffs to achieve the end use goal and stay within the budget of your wallet.
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  #22  
Old 10-12-2009, 04:08 PM
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Thanks man...that's kinda info I was looking for.
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  #23  
Old 10-12-2009, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasNomad View Post
And besides from what i've seen on the TMI site, you can get better numbers out of these engines then you can out of a 460 minus the weight.
The weight penalty for going from a small block 351M/400 to a big block 429/460 is only 145 lbs. The 4.9 bore spacing on a big block allows you to build a much larger, stronger and more powerful engine for a lot less money than a small block. Comparing a highly modified 351M/400 to a stock 460 is just not realistic.
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  #24  
Old 10-12-2009, 07:10 PM
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Well i've seen the number compared to modded 460s and they dont lie.
So sorry man, these engines are kind of the bastard child, but i've seem bigger numbers while running less rpms and lower octane ratings.

So I say go TMI.
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  #25  
Old 10-12-2009, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasNomad View Post
Well i've seen the number compared to modded 460s and they dont lie.So sorry man, these engines are kind of the bastard child, but i've seem bigger numbers while running less rpms and lower octane ratings.
So I say go TMI.
Tex,
The big block rules the strip for one reason it is the biggest baddest and fastest. Small block engines are not bastard childs, but they do not outperform a big block when comparing mod to mod. When all the top fuel teams start losing to small blocks then maybe you will have something, but thats never going to happen unless we change physics. BTW octane needs are determined by compression ratio and timing.
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  #26  
Old 10-12-2009, 08:13 PM
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Yeah Tex...as the old saying goes, there's no replacement for displacement. Start with the biggest platform possible. If you throw the same amount of money into a 302, 400 and 460...with comparable parts...the 460 will outperform the others hands down all day. Now if you drop the 5k to do a 434 kit to a 400 and put that against a stock 460, yeah, the 434 would win.


Personally, I just like the 335's because they're always bagged on and everyone always goes 460...so I prefer to be a tad different.
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  #27  
Old 10-12-2009, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by UTfball68 View Post
Personally, I just like the 335's because they're always bagged on and everyone always goes 460...so I prefer to be a tad different.
That's pretty much why I went that route.
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  #28  
Old 10-12-2009, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UTfball68 View Post
Yeah Tex...as the old saying goes, there's no replacement for displacement. Start with the biggest platform possible. If you throw the same amount of money into a 302, 400 and 460...with comparable parts...the 460 will outperform the others hands down all day. Now if you drop the 5k to do a 434 kit to a 400 and put that against a stock 460, yeah, the 434 would win.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UTfball68 View Post
Personally, I just like the 335's because they're always bagged on and everyone always goes 460...so I prefer to be a tad different.
Don't get me wrong, i love small block engines, have built several and for most applications prefer them to a big block. The main reason the 351M/400 usually gets swapped for a 460 is that it is an easy cheap swap. All you need is a donor 460, fly wheel & motor mounts and it is a direct bolt-in installation. Results are increased performance on a stock budget.
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  #29  
Old 10-12-2009, 08:34 PM
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And I like getting under peoples thin skin..
lol I was going to 460 but then I started looking dyno numbers of 460s and TMIs 400 and the 400 numbers were better and in the range I wanted..
if the engine can make more power at lower rpms running low to mid grade gas then a built big block..
does that make it a better engine? Hell I dunno know.
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  #30  
Old 10-12-2009, 08:49 PM
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Ill stick to my FEs if I can ever get my luck to change I might try strokin that 351m I got layin around and buy a bronco to put it in.
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