Join Our Ford Truck Forum Today

Document your Ford truck project here and inspire others! Login/Register to view the site with fewer ads.

93 2.3 flooding? when trying to start hot.

i been driving my fams spare car lately, a 93 mustang 2.3, auto with 224,000. we just use as a spare car. anyways it had this problem for a few years now but i've never cared enough to try and fix it.

after the car been driven for a while and it is warm. it has a hard time restarting. you can crank on it all you want but it wont hit or fire. if you crank it while pumping the gas it will start to hit and stumble to life like it was flooded (efi motor, so this seems odd). you can smell it when it stumbling to life running very rich. once it started it will run prefect as long as you dont turn it off.

we got some smart guys here so maybe someone has an idea of whats wrong

i havn't done much to this car. my sister wanted this mustang so we bough ti for her 5 years. it put a MAF and a ingintion module on it, replaced the spark plugs with e3 on the intake side and ngks on the exhaust. i also flipped the wires on the exhaust coil to they fire with the primary coil.
 

fatherdoug

Tonto Papadapolous
that was some good info. thanks doug. i might just swap back the exhaust plug wires. i read in a few places that the exhaust plugs fire on the exhaust stroke for emissions so twicked it.
 

john112deere

caffeine junkie
Staff member
10,807
405
central Vermont
Doesn't quite fit (generally causes cold-start issues, not hot) but I wonder about the IAC (idle air control)?
 

CowboyBilly9Mile

Charter Member
7,118
442
USA
First thing, does it have a working CEL and if so, have you looked for DTC's (EEC-IV engine management system)?
 
sorry should have posted not DTC, cel works, and i have tryed with my scan tool that does obd1
 

CowboyBilly9Mile

Charter Member
7,118
442
USA
...after the car been driven for a while and it is warm. it has a hard time restarting. you can crank on it all you want but it wont hit or fire. if you crank it while pumping the gas it will start to hit and stumble to life like it was flooded (efi motor, so this seems odd). you can smell it when it stumbling to life running very rich. once it started it will run prefect as long as you dont turn it off. ......

Since it acts as if it's flooded and smells rich when it finally starts, what happens if you hold the gas pedal to the floor and try to start it? Will it start or must it be pumped?


Sidenote on DTC's for the EEC-IV engine management system........there are three categories of DTC's, KOEO, KOER and CM. Any intermittent DTC(s) *should* stay in CM for 50 duty cycles unless manually cleared. I say *should* because in theory, that's how it's supposed to work, however, (not so) lucky me managed to prove that wrong at one time. So at any rate, I'd make sure that CM is checked for any DTC's. One more thing on pulling DTC's on EEC-IV and you probably know this but I'll bring it up just to be safe, during the process of pulling the DTC's, when requested to depress the brake and floor it (KOER), make sure to do so or it'll kick up a false DTC.
 

CowboyBilly9Mile

Charter Member
7,118
442
USA
Ok, now I'm just grasping at straws. Bad temp sensor that goes to ECM?

X2, wondering if it's out of range when warm and therefore feeds a cold engine reading to the ECM, and fuel delivery on a warm start is that of a cold start. Hoping that he could find a DTC to verify that sensor.
 
sweet, will have to try that tomorrow after i fix this on my 00 jetta daily :(. i always though there was just the one temp sendor, to feed both like gm did on a lot of things.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20160923_150258.jpg

CowboyBilly9Mile

Charter Member
7,118
442
USA
^^^^ Along with the possible sensor that the ECM uses, is there any chance the engine isn't fully warming up? An IR thermometer would be handy for verification.

-------------------

attachment.php


^^^ Das auto has a CV shaft seal that ist kaput. :(
 
Once it's warmed up and won't start put a timing light on it to check for a steady regular spark - also check fuel pressure is not too high as well.
 

dustybumpers

don't play well w others
Faulty fuel pressure regulator will act like that too.
 

CowboyBilly9Mile

Charter Member
7,118
442
USA
Any feedback to the above replies?
 
oh sorry i haven't gotten to it yet. hoping to make a little time for it next weekend. i need to make some other repairs and maintenance happen and i want to get them done in one shot.
 
any body have any info on code 538. i know this is related to the engine snap test but i got this code 3 time out of 3 times while running koer test, followed the turn right 1/2 then brake, then accelerator. i pushed it alway to the floor and then released it took about 1-2 seconds for the full cycle.


anyways looks like the temp gauge is reading about 130F when the engine it at 155F. time to find a temp sendor. with the engine at 180F the gauge it only one tick above the low of 130F.
 
got a video of it doing it. looks like i need ot go poking around a mustang forum. i have a single wire temp sender on the back of the head, on the intake side. and a 2 wire temp sendor in the heater hose. if i unplug the two wire one a code is thrown and the fan comes on (seems logical for this to be ecm and single to be gauge). nothing happens when i unplug the single wire one. the temp gauge doesn't change states with either or both sensors unplugged which really confuses me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-aKFvrOcT0&feature=youtu.be
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20161003_134707.jpg
Last edited:

CowboyBilly9Mile

Charter Member
7,118
442
USA
I'd have to google what 538 is, and it might make a difference if it's a koeo, koer or a cm code.

Other thoughts:

* It's imperative to fix codes in the following order...KOEO, KOER, and CM. Within each of those categories, its also imperative that the first code to be fixed is the lowest numbered one. Repair the code, clear codes, drive, check to see if any return. This because, one DTC can spawn other dtcs that are false; about the same with not following the noted sequence because a randomly selected code to fix could well be a false one.

*The goose test, I fould that the gas must be held punched for about a half second. Not enough time and it'll trigger a false DTC.

*Good catch on the temp sender, but remember, there are two temp senders. I think if it were me I'd either try a pinpoint test on the sender (check resistance for a given temp) or if at all suspicious, toss a new $20 sender at it. Somewhere online I'd expect there to be a table of resistance and temp data; that sender was used for a lot of years on a lot of different Ford engines.
 

Ford Truck Articles

Top