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  #21  
Old 10-22-2011, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ton van der Sluijs View Post
Goodmorning y'all
The smog is the biggest crap I've ever seen on an engine in 35 years!!
The smog blows fresh air in the system two positions; under 2000revs just after the cat and above 2000revs straight on the exhaustvalves IN THE OPPOSITE WAY OF THE GASSTREAM!! How stupid can that be!! Because that cold ray of air blows exxentric on the valves, they will deform..
The cold air lowers also the exhaust gastemperature and moist in the muffler will shorten life of it. My truck is just 7 years in Holland.. One can see that all the bolts and nuts are undamaged, exept those of the exhaustpipe/headers... they are worn; I had to machine new ones. It tells me that the exhaustpipes are replaced a lot.

I've blinded off the EGR as well and MPG is improved, smoother run, more power and my engine remains clean. when I bought her, a thick layer of tar was in the inletmanifolds and the valves were damaged by all the tart what was sticking on the valves.
Let it be clear; an EGR is a gov. thing , only for the environment.
without the EGR, the O2 shall always cooperate with the EEC to reach the stochiometric value of 1:14,7 gas/air.
The inert gasses from the EGR lowers your combustionspeed (actually your timing retards) lowers the combustiontemp (powerloss) and because there's a natural law that say's " to keep a body on a certain speed, a certain amount of energy is needed to maintain on that speed". In other words, when the EGR is on duty, one shall push the acceleratorpedal deeper to keep speed. when I blinded it off, the first thing what I spotted, was the the pedal stood higher at same speed.
Now, they say that the EGR takes care for a lower NOx, okay? but when it messes your combustion, more fuel goes thru the engine and a lot of unburned will leave the tailpipe.
One must not forget, that the carmanufacturers and the oilcompany sleeping in oneand the same bed!! If your car can cope the environmental demands, it's okay and if the fuelconsumption rises, it's super to them!! All Gore happy, oilbosses happy, and as an extra bonus for the aftermarket sales, more work to do for carmechanics and more parts to sell.
Cars, oil and environment is pure politic games and we, as ordinary people are the"milkcows"of the governments.

This summer I've installed a woodburner in the house and 20cubic yard of wood behind the house is waiting to get burned this winter.... Environment? To leave a tree rotting away for years seems to make more CO2 than a quick burn in a burner... the Nuon(dutch natural gas company) shall not become rich over my back. but that was offtopic!!

best regards Ton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ton van der Sluijs View Post
Goodmorning
It's useless to blow cold air on hot valves.... Ruin your costly acquired combustion with gasses thru the EGR a waste of compression ratio. If you lower the compress ratio to 1:6 you get the same result; a lower combustiontemperature= worse combustion and a lot of unburned fuel out the tailpipe.

Ton
No and No.
An EGR system on a gas engine will increase fuel economy over the same engine without and EGR system. Lower fuel mixture, cylinder temperature and exhaust temperature in a gas engine is more efficient. High temperatures in a gas engine reduce power & performance, exhaust gas temperature directly limits power output in a gas engine(the reverse is true for compression ignition engines). EGR systems will not lower your compression ratio or cause unburnt fuel to run out the tail pipe.
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  #22  
Old 10-22-2011, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasNomad View Post

... but the fact is IT was MADE to be on the engine and the engine cant run right with out it there It will be taken off in the near future but it will be done right after a engine swap IF I end up keeping her, But i'm not looking to dive in to some epic engine hack and slash job right now just wanted to know if I could safely get past with by passing it I have the money to buy a new pump just don't want to if I dont gotta.

My dad removed the smog pump on our 85 f150 and it still runs to this day I see her in Traffic every once in awhile, I wont try and sound like I have advance knowledge on how these things work and the dangers of removing them, what might last 20 years on one might last 5 miles on another maybe just luck or maybe our 85 ford was just that bad *** I dunno. Thank you for all your reply's and this weekend I have some work to do on her I think I need to go barrow my brothers garden horse, mawhaha, Im seeing double so its time to watch some cartoons and hit the ol hay.
Tex you hit the nail on the head on both counts, though I do not like the enviromentalists either, the cheapest route for you to currently take is to determine if the smog pump is bad and if so then replace it. Trying to remove or hack the system will just cause you more heartache in the long run.
Good luck
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  #23  
Old 08-15-2012, 09:44 AM
fosgate3 fosgate3 is offline
 
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I know this thread is old but I wanted to affirm what was written here: My smog pump has been shot for a long time. It goes through periodic bouts of squealing till I lube it up with PB Blaster or WD40, knock it with a hammer a few times, etc. I havent had an issue with it running lean at all, or at least not that I've been able to tell. I changed the cats out recently and the pump isn't connected to them anymore. The engine runs a lot better. Now, I'm taking the next move and removing the bastard completely.
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  #24  
Old 08-15-2012, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by fosgate3 View Post
I know this thread is old but I wanted to affirm what was written here: My smog pump has been shot for a long time. It goes through periodic bouts of squealing till I lube it up with PB Blaster or WD40, knock it with a hammer a few times, etc. I havent had an issue with it running lean at all, or at least not that I've been able to tell. I changed the cats out recently and the pump isn't connected to them anymore. The engine runs a lot better. Now, I'm taking the next move and removing the bastard completely.
A couple questions:

-What verifiable facts do you have that it is running better? You have a dyno print out? You have before and after gauge readings??? Or simply believing what you want to believe?

-What are you comparing 'running better' to??? The engine operating with an admittedly bad smog pump, or when the vehicle was new, in which nobody will remember how it ran 15-20 years ago anyway.
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  #25  
Old 08-15-2012, 01:52 PM
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hi guys;
I did remove that thing 1 1/2 years ago. My truck runs good without it.

The smogpump blows fresh air in to the exhaustpipe and... it blows a cold ray of air in the opposite direction of the exhaust gas stream , exentric on the valve head.. The hot gas in the exhaust system will cool to fast and condens in the muffler makes the muffler rust quick. With a smog on, here in the Netherlands, a truck wouldn't pass the yearly test. I've removed the pump, made a bracket for the pulley (I'm Dutch; making a bracket at home was cheaper than buying a new belt ) removed all the hoses, pipes and all the vacuumlines and the filter.. but I've blinded the Thermactor solenoids, so my computer thinks eveything is in good order! I do have more space under the hood and the sparkies on the right side are better accesible .

Ton
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  #26  
Old 08-16-2012, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UTfball68 View Post
A couple questions:

-What verifiable facts do you have that it is running better? You have a dyno print out? You have before and after gauge readings??? Or simply believing what you want to believe?

-What are you comparing 'running better' to??? The engine operating with an admittedly bad smog pump, or when the vehicle was new, in which nobody will remember how it ran 15-20 years ago anyway.
Agreed. The term "running better" is entirely subjective and in no way puts any real data to confirm or refute the claim. Dyno information, emissions information, or any tangible performance criteria would support the claim. Without it, its simply an admission that an engine with a bad smog pump "feels" like its "running better" now that the bad smog pump is gone. A poorly operating component will ALWAYS detract from the performance of an engine.

I would challenge that if the Thermactor system were reinstated in its properly functioning OEM format, the engine would run "still better" than it does with the EEC-IV computer doing so much extra work trying to compensate for the missing Thermactor components.
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  #27  
Old 08-17-2012, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greystreak92 View Post
Agreed. The term "running better" is entirely subjective and in no way puts any real data to confirm or refute the claim. Dyno information, emissions information, or any tangible performance criteria would support the claim. Without it, its simply an admission that an engine with a bad smog pump "feels" like its "running better" now that the bad smog pump is gone. A poorly operating component will ALWAYS detract from the performance of an engine.

I would challenge that if the Thermactor system were reinstated in its properly functioning OEM format, the engine would run "still better" than it does with the EEC-IV computer doing so much extra work trying to compensate for the missing Thermactor components.
hi there; I do not agree, that the computer has to compensate any thing... I've blinded the EGR as well and my truck passes the yearly tests without troubles. When you remove the Thermactor, the system will run in open loop...

best regards Ton
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  #28  
Old 08-17-2012, 11:46 PM
greystreak92 greystreak92 is offline
 
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In your part of the world it passes. And furthermore, every sensor and control device you "blind" causes the ECM to compensate. There is no way around this. Unless you have rewritten the software and uploaded it to the ECM, the ECM will compensate for missing information. Yes, it will run in the open loop... which is exactly where it should NOT run during periods of operation that produce higher emissions. It isn't a question of whether the ECM "decides" to compensate for missing information. It DOES when information is missing. As I have said throughout the course of this thread, you may get the engine to run and run well enough to suit your needs. However, the belief that you have succeeded in bypassing or "fooling" the system is simply incorrect. Everyone knows you can run an engine without ANY emissions control systems in place. It does NOT mean that the computer that was programmed and designed to optimize engine performance WITH these systems in place isn't making dozens of compensatory alterations to maintain an operational engine in spite of the MISSING information. And even if you can't tell, (which you can't), it IS happening and the engine WILL suffer for it over time.
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  #29  
Old 08-18-2012, 01:57 AM
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goodmorning.
Okay; I can agree that when the EGR don't pass hot inert gas into the inlet, the combustion temperature shall be a bit higher, but, that should mean that the engine produces more energy, thus with lesser throttle it produces more power. I think, that de exhaust temp. shall not rise to much, otherwise that should mean, that we produce more power, thus more speed. To move that truck at a certain speed, it has to produce a vast certain amount of energy.... no more, no less... how the energy is built up, shall not be so important.. I think, without the EGR the exhaust temperature shall rise at higher speeds, but for me personly , I drive never above 3000rpm and never faster as 60MPH. So, I don't no when I should ride 70 every time.
The smog is a useless equipment and outdated. The EGR dirtens your whole engine at the combustionside (I've seen mine; it was a big mess.) One must not forget, both (smog and EGR) were developed to get an actually old design engine thru the emissiontests on a cheap way without changing the engine, not more, not less..
Here in the Netherlands it's possible to pass the Co2 test with an EGR..It doesn't operate at the rpms they test it, but a smogpump destroys the testresults and every "testmaster" (I don't know an english word for it) shall advice here to remove it. The smog only dillutes what comes out of the tailpipe...It doesn't make cleaner exhaust gas..

best regards Ton
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  #30  
Old 08-20-2012, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greystreak92 View Post
Agreed. The term "running better" is entirely subjective and in no way puts any real data to confirm or refute the claim. Dyno information, emissions information, or any tangible performance criteria would support the claim. Without it, its simply an admission that an engine with a bad smog pump "feels" like its "running better" now that the bad smog pump is gone. A poorly operating component will ALWAYS detract from the performance of an engine.

I would challenge that if the Thermactor system were reinstated in its properly functioning OEM format, the engine would run "still better" than it does with the EEC-IV computer doing so much extra work trying to compensate for the missing Thermactor components.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greystreak92 View Post
In your part of the world it passes. And furthermore, every sensor and control device you "blind" causes the ECM to compensate. There is no way around this. Unless you have rewritten the software and uploaded it to the ECM, the ECM will compensate for missing information. Yes, it will run in the open loop... which is exactly where it should NOT run during periods of operation that produce higher emissions. It isn't a question of whether the ECM "decides" to compensate for missing information. It DOES when information is missing. As I have said throughout the course of this thread, you may get the engine to run and run well enough to suit your needs. However, the belief that you have succeeded in bypassing or "fooling" the system is simply incorrect. Everyone knows you can run an engine without ANY emissions control systems in place. It does NOT mean that the computer that was programmed and designed to optimize engine performance WITH these systems in place isn't making dozens of compensatory alterations to maintain an operational engine in spite of the MISSING information. And even if you can't tell, (which you can't), it IS happening and the engine WILL suffer for it over time.
Exactly, spot on.
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