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Generations 8-9 1987-1996 F150 + 1987-1997 F250, F350

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Old 04-02-2020, 09:57 PM
Kaajot Kaajot is offline
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Question 1991 F-250 Plow Truck Questions (351 v8 to 302 v8)

Looking for advice:

I'm probably going to work on my plow truck this Summer. Supposedly a Timing Chain and gear replacement may get the non-seized engine to turn/crank. It may also need a new fuel pump to get the fuel there (dual tank truck).

It's a 302 5.0L engine, but the body is rough. It has a really nice Fischer Plow. It's manual, so an automatic would be better anyway.

If I get the engine turning over and running, since the frame is rough, would it be better to get an automatic F-250 or F-350 from 1995-1996 (upgrades, which now I know like alternator and neutral safety switches) body? There are a lot of good options out there in my neck of the woods.

HOWEVER, many of these are actually 351 v8 engines. Would I run into issues in this situation? I don't really care about the new truck's engine assuming my $78 between the timing chain kit and fuel pump works out to turning over and running my 302 v8 engine.

Second, how difficult is it going to be to move all the hydraulic components for the plow over to the new frame?

I think I'd rather do this than repair all the defects in the F-250 frame I currently have with the 302 engine, plus it's a manual and would be better as an automatic.

Just planning for the Summer. Working on my Saab right now so I can get the F-150 into an engine shop and hopefully get the S&J Engine warrantied.

PS: If the 302 vs 351 doesn't matter (avoiding the diesels), should I lien into an F-250 vs F-350? Obviously F-350 suspension is better, happy to get that if it's a nice truck. I've got about 7 vehicles picked out within driving distance in various forms of repair regarding engine (or actually running engine, just not a plow truck... yet).

PPS: I noted in some other forums the 302 replacing a 351 will result in changing the flex plate and also possibly modifying the exhaust connection to the cat converter (smaller). Anything else?
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  #2  
Old 04-03-2020, 05:51 AM
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Fellro Fellro is offline
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Most things externally will trade, other than the aforemention flexplate. If it is a running truck, I wouldn't bother swapping it. I've been running a 351W for at least 10 years and it just won't die. The body is about gone, but the motor keeps on going. It has done as much as 6 big round bales, about 2-3k each with a high gearset. It is pretty impressive actually what it can do despite having the gearing working against it. It is in a 250.

As to the plow, everything should be a bolt on, just have to run teh wiring. Hydraulics are generally self contained in the plow components.
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:29 PM
Kaajot Kaajot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellro View Post
Most things externally will trade, other than the aforemention flexplate. If it is a running truck, I wouldn't bother swapping it. I've been running a 351W for at least 10 years and it just won't die. The body is about gone, but the motor keeps on going. It has done as much as 6 big round bales, about 2-3k each with a high gearset. It is pretty impressive actually what it can do despite having the gearing working against it. It is in a 250.

As to the plow, everything should be a bolt on, just have to run teh wiring. Hydraulics are generally self contained in the plow components.
So, best plan if I find a 351 body I like with decent running engine would be.

1. Transfer Plow to that Truck.
2. Give it the college try on timing and fuel pump to get the 302 Engine Running.
3. If Running, sell 302 Engine and part out truck, scrap.
4. If not running, scrap truck after exploitative timing chain operation/gear (set), maybe try parting out a U-pull-It scenario. At least the Transmission might be of interest to someone.
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Old 04-04-2020, 01:23 PM
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250's can handle the abuse a bit better, but if you don't really plow a lot, might be able to just go to a 150. Not sure the mounting arrangement on the 150 would be the same as the 250 though.
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My trucks:
The workhorse, 86 F250 4x4 6.9 nat aspirated, 3.25 exhaust, custom intake, electric fuel pump, otherwise well used stock... not real pretty but just loves to work!

The other heavy hauler, 92 F350 2wd dually crew cab, flatbed/toolboxes, 92 Cummins VE 12V with intercooler, NV4500 manual

The beater: 88 F250 4x4, 5.8 5 speed
The project ... 1978 F150 4wd shortbed 351 auto

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Old 04-04-2020, 01:32 PM
Kaajot Kaajot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellro View Post
250's can handle the abuse a bit better, but if you don't really plow a lot, might be able to just go to a 150. Not sure the mounting arrangement on the 150 would be the same as the 250 though.
Nah, there are plenty of F-250s and F-350s from 1995-1996 up here that are in surprisingly good condition body-wise (and hopefully frame).

Tires on the F-250 I have are good too, so I do have a lot of things to swap between although I'm not sure if this F-250 is running the old 15" rims. I'll have to check, hoping they're 16 inch rims. One more thing for this to work out in my favor.
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:58 PM
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The twists and turns here are kinda making my head hurt lol. But here`s what I have to add.

91 versus 92 engine wiring harness is different and will need to be swapped.

Exhaust is different between 5.0 and 5.8. You will be doing exhaust work. I once bought a set of Flowtech shorties that were bought new for a 93 F-150 with a 5.8. Went to put them on my 94 with a 5.0 and the drivers side wouldn`t bolt up to the y pipe. Just food for thought. 5.8s are taller/wider at the heads, so the y pipe will be different also.

Flywheels/flexplates are different.

Front engine accesory drive will swap between the two, Ford cast the extra holes. Just need the appropriate belt for the engine.

Plow. The front frame horns are different between 80-91 and 92-97 F-250/350s. Is your Fisher plow the newer style Minute Mount, or the older style where only the blade itself comes off? If it`s a Minute Mount you may still be able to get the truck side bracket. The older style will require fab work, ie, welding.

The Western plow that is on my 93 F-250 originally came off of a 85 F-150. I welded the truck side mount because the frame is boxed. I also had to extend the kickers so they would bolt on in the correct place. I can provide some pics if it`ll be helpful. The headlight wiring is also different.

My advice? With a 5.0 that doesn`t run, and a good plow, buy a running 92-97 that`s in your budget and make the plow work if you can.
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Old 04-05-2020, 04:07 PM
Kaajot Kaajot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetime View Post
The twists and turns here are kinda making my head hurt lol. But here`s what I have to add.

91 versus 92 engine wiring harness is different and will need to be swapped.

Exhaust is different between 5.0 and 5.8. You will be doing exhaust work. I once bought a set of Flowtech shorties that were bought new for a 93 F-150 with a 5.8. Went to put them on my 94 with a 5.0 and the drivers side wouldn`t bolt up to the y pipe. Just food for thought. 5.8s are taller/wider at the heads, so the y pipe will be different also.

Flywheels/flexplates are different.

Front engine accesory drive will swap between the two, Ford cast the extra holes. Just need the appropriate belt for the engine.

Plow. The front frame horns are different between 80-91 and 92-97 F-250/350s. Is your Fisher plow the newer style Minute Mount, or the older style where only the blade itself comes off? If it`s a Minute Mount you may still be able to get the truck side bracket. The older style will require fab work, ie, welding.

The Western plow that is on my 93 F-250 originally came off of a 85 F-150. I welded the truck side mount because the frame is boxed. I also had to extend the kickers so they would bolt on in the correct place. I can provide some pics if it`ll be helpful. The headlight wiring is also different.

My advice? With a 5.0 that doesn`t run, and a good plow, buy a running 92-97 that`s in your budget and make the plow work if you can.
Ok, new plan of attack?

One, I'm not skilled with plows. When I get a chance, what should I be looking for crawling around to see its frame is compatible with various F-250/F-350 bodies?



Two, if it requires a lot of fabrication, it may be better to look for a 1990-1994 F-250/F-350 then and make the alternator, neutral safety switch, etc improvements and any other necessary repairs that will be indicative of its age (probably distrubtor, ICM most likely, fuel pumps probably, etc). I guess injectors and of course plugs/wires and a starter solenoid plus a new battery may all be on the table.

Then scrap the F-250/sell off parts after all this. The good side would be grabbing a 1990-1992 F-250 or F-350 should be $500-$1500 cheaper than a 1995/1996 if same same comparison in condition, etc.
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Old 04-05-2020, 08:06 PM
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92 changed the front of the frame a bit, and the way the bumper mounted. The Western mount I had was mounted to the end of the frame, like the bumper does. That is the part that makes changing to 92 and newer a bit more of a challenge.
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My trucks:
The workhorse, 86 F250 4x4 6.9 nat aspirated, 3.25 exhaust, custom intake, electric fuel pump, otherwise well used stock... not real pretty but just loves to work!

The other heavy hauler, 92 F350 2wd dually crew cab, flatbed/toolboxes, 92 Cummins VE 12V with intercooler, NV4500 manual

The beater: 88 F250 4x4, 5.8 5 speed
The project ... 1978 F150 4wd shortbed 351 auto

ASE certified parts specialist
I do most all of my own work so I know who to complain to..Roger
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Old 04-07-2020, 05:06 AM
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Somehow missed this thread.
If you cant get the other truck running, why would you take on a project like this?

There is no way in hell you can handle this project. Your money would be better spent buying a newer better shape truck that runs.
Plow trucks take a tremendous amount of work to keep them going if you intend to make money with them. There wont be a trip out that you dont break something

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Old 04-07-2020, 08:07 PM
Kaajot Kaajot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustybumpers View Post
Somehow missed this thread.
If you cant get the other truck running, why would you take on a project like this?

There is no way in hell you can handle this project. Your money would be better spent buying a newer better shape truck that runs.
Plow trucks take a tremendous amount of work to keep them going if you intend to make money with them. There wont be a trip out that you dont break something

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Well, the OTHER mechanic said he'd get it running, then he told me to scrap it. So now I have $1200 in something I can get $300 for and a plow that I'd like to repurpose.

I can do the timing chain and fuel pump. I did the sending units on my F-700, the other mechanic told me NOT to follow the instructions and now I have a gauge that reads poorly but that's another story.

Every time he says it's hard, I find a YouTube video that makes it pretty easy or research article that explains things. I guess I can read and listen better? I just am not mechanically experienced, even in my F-15 Crew Chief days I was not a great mechanic and was only there to get an endorsement from the aviator community to get flying (which I did).

Anyway, I'm looking at what the 1991 has to offer because it has a frame that's got a slight break on the left side plus the engine needs work, new PSP, etc. And it's manual. And the cab will need work (floor pan, back rockers) to keep water out. So the more I've thought about it, the more I've thought transferring the plow is the best option.

I need a plow truck because my farm is currently plowed by the other owner on our non-serviced road and by the mechanic that's now out of business, so even if I wasn't making money with it, plowing the .2 mile road is important there.

I thought I'd ask questions and think about all of this on where the plow should go and how to make it work since I sunk $1200 into just getting it to the mechanic's shop and is now sitting on the back lot of my farm.
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