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zf5, m5r2, t18, or np435

A_G

wuh?
3,188
74
Tulsa, Ok
I know the T-18 and np435 are both 3 speed with a granny gear. But that last gear is very high. Those that have them, what rpms are you pulling at 65?

ZF5 is suspodedly very stout, what model years did they arrive in, did they come mated with a 302/351 series?

M5R2, would it be reliable, to say, my driving?

Listen, im getting that damn car so i can fix up my truck, i cant drive it, and fix it. so before the tranny finishes it self off. Im going to start gathering parts.

Manual Cross member
Driveshaft
starter
clutch, flywheel, flex plate, slave cylinder assc. parts
transmission
Pedal assembly

Bases on prices ive seen thus far, i will come in far below the cost of a auto tranny on the pallet.

what do you think of the listed trannys?
 

5.0Flareside

GingaNinja
14,464
384
La Vergne, TN
ZF5 is suspodedly very stout, what model years did they arrive in, did they come mated with a 302/351 series?

M5R2, would it be reliable, to say, my driving?



what do you think of the listed trannys?

the ZF5 is absolutely super stout. they did come mated to 351W's in F350's and i believe F250s in i think once again THINK 92-96.

the Mazda 5 spd. is only good if your just a slow takeoff cruiser or alot of highway miles.

the zf5 will get you better gas mileage and better reliability overall imho
 

nobodyspecial

Fire in the hole...
5,756
366
ND
What is this going into? Just curious, did the ZF ever come behind a 302?
 

Truckin4life

Texas Chapter Leader
I dont know if it did or not, i figured the mazda 5 speed did.
But they share the same bellhousing so it is possible...

I love my zf5....
I would choose it hands down from the above list.
 

nobodyspecial

Fire in the hole...
5,756
366
ND
nice low first gear, right?
 

Lost

PA Chapter leader
3,288
33
central PA
I know of 3 92 93 F350 4x4 with 300 6 and the zf . One from factory for sure.
 

Fellro

Moderator
Staff member
First ZF's were 87. The t-18 and 435 are 1:1 ratio, so not exactly a high gearing... There were ZF's behind 351's (have one in an 88, had an 89 that had it as well) 300-6's, so since there were some (not many I would think) 302's in some 250's and 350's, then they would have them as well.
 
I give up. :/
I've done it before but it's a pain in the neck to make that "one little part
with the gear-ratios" come out straight on these dangged website forums. :/

So here's the whole taco, scroll to the bottom... LOL :)
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/600rpm

---------------------------

Manual Cross member
Driveshaft
starter
clutch, flywheel, flex plate, slave cylinder, {master cylinder and line}
transmission
Pedal assembly

----------------------
Here's somethings I did or doing, YMMV on this part...
bought a '90 F250 parts truck
swapped steering column
swapped in a black part for the PRND21 mechanism (could just paint it?)
swapped in manual EEC
swapped in clutch master cylinder "firewall protector"
removed the E4OD wiring harness
...and did quite a bit of re-wiring and ain't done with that yet! ;)

Alvin in AZ
ps- Didn't like the little brake pedal so...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/pedal.jpg
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/hoist7m.jpg
 
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A_G

wuh?
3,188
74
Tulsa, Ok
I know of 3 92 93 F350 4x4 with 300 6 and the zf . One from factory for sure.

got a 2wd? Shipping to 74452?

I give up. :/
I've done it before but it's a pain in the neck to make that "one little part
with the gear-ratios" come out straight on these dangged website forums. :/

So here's the whole taco, scroll to the bottom... LOL :)
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/600rpm

---------------------------

Manual Cross member
Driveshaft
starter
clutch, flywheel, flex plate, slave cylinder, {master cylinder and line}
transmission
Pedal assembly

----------------------
Here's somethings I did or doing, YMMV on this part...
bought a '90 F250 parts truck
swapped steering column
swapped in a black part for the PRND21 mechanism (could just paint it?)
swapped in manual EEC
swapped in clutch master cylinder "firewall protector"
removed the E4OD wiring harness
...and did quite a bit of re-wiring and ain't done with that yet! ;)

Alvin in AZ
ps- Didn't like the little brake pedal so...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/pedal.jpg
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/hoist7m.jpg

so i may be correct in the assumption that thereis a panel that i just drill out the spot welds for under my carpet...right?

Seeing as the shifter on the auto trucks (92-96) is just a couple of hold downs and popping the end out of cable/bar system. Ill be leaving my column, heck i could even leave the stick and put in those cable actuated exaust cuttouts ive been wanting (redneck right?). the prnd12 ill be leaving, its my truck, wont bother me none.

so the manual transmission are electronically controleld aswell? What do there "computers" read and sense?


I was going to figure out a way to fab up the clutch master mount.

as far as the pedal assembly goes, can you shoot me some pictures?

ill get back to this
 

A_G

wuh?
3,188
74
Tulsa, Ok
That equation is fun to mess with.

For instance
3000 rpms x 31"/.76 (5th zf5)x3.73x336= apprx 97mph
Now if we change the rpms from 3k to 4500= 146 mph
and finally the number i was looking for 4500 to 6150 rpms = 200 mph

If the engine could attain that, wind resistance not a factor etc etc and so on...

Btw you haft to follow PEMDAS to get an accurate answer.

do the rpms x tire size
Then do trans gear ration, rear edn ratio x 336
seperatly.

Then divide the first equation by the second.
 

Fellro

Moderator
Staff member
The manuals don't have electronic controls, but they computer reads the gear position perhaps (think shift light) but coming from an automatic to a manual requires reworking things since the computer controls the auto shifts. It will throw codes if you don't.

Not sure on the fords since I haven't done a manual swap on one, but many times you have to cut the panel out as it is a full sheet, then bolt the manual trans cover in place.They likely have the ridge for strength already formed in, and all you have to do is cut out alongside it and put the screws in to hold the cover in place.
 

89frankenford

Grabber Green Consultant
4,547
147
NH
M5R2, would it be reliable, to say, my driving?

well i have an M5OD (basically the same thing) and its in 2 separate pieces right now. it last roughly 2-3 years of me beating the ever living snot out of it
 
rpm x tire diameter / trans gear ratio x axle gear ratio x 336 = mph

The way I did it over and over is...
rpm x tire = / 336 = / axle = / transmission = answer in mph

3000 x 31.5 (235/85-16E's:) = /336 = /3.50 = /6.32 (T18) = 12.7 mph LOL :)
Same except in reverse on the ol' T18 = 10.8 mph
An NP435 is even slower! LOL :)

--------------------

Crawl under your pickup and look up at the floor and see if it's got a hatch.

I get the big sheets of cardboard from Costco. :) A guy can use them for
map folders too -and- pattern a shotgun on each one -twice- even! (look
at the exit side;) Beats the crap out of all that silly stuff the books and
magazines tell you to use. :/ Heck I couldn't even find 48" wide paper. :/
And the wind here would make it a royal pain and on top of all that... I'm
supposed to make a frame too? Cardboard from Costco is friggin free! LOL :)

----------------------

The Bronco had a hatch with it's E4OD.
(Electric 4 speed Over Drive)
There's an EAOD too.

The only reason they put in a hatch (I've been told) is because the floor
was too low and had to add a hatch. I figure it has something to do with
the floor shifter too but sure as heck don't know.

-----------------------

The EEC is supposed to throw codes like Fellro said but also was told the
automatic EEC's (even the Mustang A9P) lets the RPM's "hang" instead of
quickly dropping back to idle.

-----------------------

Off hand I wouldn't recommend this swap unless you really like doing stuff
like this. I do. :) And the other reason was after ~2+1/2 years, never found
a 5 speed Bronco I wanted. On top of that, learned almost all the 5 speed
Broncos came with a close ratio Mazda and I didn't want that at all! :/

So I only had two choices, forget the Bronco idea or make my own. LOL :)

BTW, M5OD (manual 5 speed overdrive) has two types M5OD-R2 = "Mazda"
(Toyo Kogyo) and the M5OD-HD = ZF ("Gear Fabricators" in German)

Mazda 5 speed close ratio-
Mazda + 1st + 29" + 3.55 == 3.7 mph
Mazda + 1st + 30.5 + 3.55 = 3.9 mph <-- 31.5" tires and still too slow
Mazda + 2nd + 29" + 3.55 == 6.5 mph <-- 29" tires and still too fast
Mazda + 2nd + 30.5 + 3.55 = 6.9 mph

ZF + 2nd + 29" tire + 3.55 axle == 5.0 mph
ZF + 2nd + 31.5 tire + 3.55 axle = 5.4 mph <--should scoot across an intersection lickity-split! ;)

Alvin in AZ
 
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I don't have pedal assembly pictures, sorry. :/
But off hand, I figure they wouldn't be worth anything anyway. :/

The cross-shaft size is different between the two (we're talkin Ford here!)
so none of the important parts will interchange, not the magnesium frame,
not-nuthin'cept the pedal pads and brake switch and the bolts that hold it
in the cab. :(

That thin-dangged magnesium frame spooked me so I did the same as I did
on my bump, only different. ;) LOL :)

I bought an "isolator" from Granger and mounted it to the floor so it would
stop the pedal just before it touched the frame's stop. The rubber stopper
on the Mg frame had been cut in two already, when I got it, so left it out
since that part is (we're talkin Ford here still!) "obsolete" anyway.

I have a picture of that setup, but dangged if I can find it! LOL :)
Both the steel plates are still on that isolator, just removed one stud.

The Dent was cheaper and easier both, I just cut out a hunk of conveyor
belt and screwed it to the floor under the carpet. :)

On both vehicles ('75 F150 '91 Bronco) I cut an isolator in half and used a
"half" for the "upper stop". :) Way tougher and longer lasting than the
original stuff Ford used. :)

Did the same on the Old Clunker's tailgate. ('75 F150 I bought new)

Alvin in AZ
 

nobodyspecial

Fire in the hole...
5,756
366
ND
well i have an M5OD (basically the same thing)
As far as I know, M5OD and M5R2 are two names for the same thing. The full name for the box is M5OD-R2

BTW, M5OD (manual 5 speed overdrive) has two types M5OD-R2 = "Mazda"
(Toyo Kogyo) and the M5OD-HD = ZF ("Gear Fabricators" in German)
Not saying you are wrong, (someone correct me if I am) but I thought it went something like this:

M5OD-R1 - light duty box used in rangers and explorers
M5OD-R2 - stronger version used in F150s
ZF5 - Heavy duty used in the F250 and above.
 

A_G

wuh?
3,188
74
Tulsa, Ok
my reasoning for doing the swap is.
november 08 i had my AOD-E go out while in college, i didnt have very many tools or a place to work on it, it was -30 below at the time, so i had to take to a shop.

Tranny was toast so they sent it off and it got rebuilt. all was well until this past december, it started slipping agian, fluids where up in the right spot.

Now, it grinds on take off, and slips on the shfit to 2nd.
I give it about 6 months maybe...
Its a year old and its maybe got 40k on it.
But luckily for me i have a warranty, oh...err wait...the shop that rebuilt it, went under due to the economy, and my warranty wont be honored. So im SOL.

Before that, i had a tranny go out at apprx 108k miles, i swapped in a junkyard tranny, and it last 20k miles, got it rebuilt and her i am...

At the rate im going, ill be putting a new tranny again (after i would normally do this one) at about 195k-200k.

But hold the phone, i also put in atleast 30-40k miles of highway a year. So that would be about this time next year.

oh yea, alvin i went through some of your pictures and looked at your swap. very interesting, the reason i asked for a pedal picture, is in the one picture you sent me, it appeared that the truck was of a 87-96 era. well upon further inspection (looking at more pics) its a 73-79 (dent) with pedals and accesorys for a 87-96 swapped in.

Nice looking though.
and you really like knives....

wasup with the horse knawing at the mt lion?
 
As far as I know, M5OD and M5R2 are two names for the same thing.
The full name for the box is M5OD-R2
{Si! :}
...thought it went something like this:
M5OD-R1 - light duty box used in rangers and explorers
M5OD-R2 - stronger version used in F150s {and Broncos}
ZF5 - Heavy duty used in the F250 and above.
We're on the same page but we are just too dumb to know it! LOL :)

Ford Truck Shop Manual sez ZF5-42 = M5OD-HD
And many (most?) places it leaves the "-R2" off the Mazda because
the books are only for... "Bronco, Econoline, F-Series, F-Super-doodie;)".

So, I fiNgure, that's where the "M5OD = Mazda" got started? {shrug}

Also there is either a wide-ratio-Mazda out there or some F150's and
Broncos got ordered+made with ZF's in 'em. :)
...according to the same dangged books. ;)

Never bothered to look into the existence of a wide ratio Mazda. :(
Didn't want one even if it did exist. ;)

Alvin in AZ
 
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