V10 or Diesel ?

[polarbear]

What a Coincidence! This comming spring we have won the Contract for 3 of the 9 schools in the district. If this works out, in another year or two we will likely be working all 9. We are the only Landscape Co in the area with a WAM and mainly recycler mowers, that was a big part of the bid. What you show on your pic is the evolution of the 580D we bought this fall when we had recieved advance notification of the bid award. If you look on Toro's website go to the Golf and Turf section, the 328 Groundsmaster is the Kubota engined 325D Groundsmaster. I have 3-325D's, 2-345's and 2-322Ds and now a 580D.
If you are towing around a 580 and a 328D with a V10 F-350 the that should have all the power we need, as we will be doing the same. My only question on this is the durability of the V10, from local people I have heard 80K, 100K or so and here 120K before issues. All machines have issues, what bothers me is the issue where a tow truck is required.

The V10 has enough power. A few recommendations from the kid (who teaches Forestry, and works Ground Ops in the summer):

1. Get a winch on the front of that truck. Not for the truck- for the mower. Those WAM's get stuck all too easily, and they're a PITA to pull back out. He'd have a 4WD on his wish list, only for the trucks towing the WAM's, but the District won't spring for them.

2. The V10 went through a complete redo in '06- 3V version. All the prior durability/service issues went away. Expect well over 100,000 miles with minor issues. And get an automatic with mutiple drivers- but you already knew that.

He also said, if you wanted more info, I should pm you his email addy. He had some thoughts and experience on the equipment that gets used as well. (Hustler Super Z's are da bomb for field mowing). Let me know.

Our maintainence is by the factory severe schedual for all of our vehicles around here. We use only high quality lubricants and filters. We still see more rear tire wear than front but it is the type of wear that comes with heavy loading, rather than from wheelspin. The closest thing to off roading the trucks see is turning arount in the field behind our shop, which is mowed and smooth. Lastly, this will not be a plow truck, and probably not used in winter for a few yrs unless needed for backup duty for our walkway crew.
There are issues and then there are ISSUES with durability. I fully expect to see the check engine light come on a few times, We have a Snap On Modus diagnostic unit for that. Brakes and suspension things are a given with all the towing, Haven't had a hitch ball mount make more than 1 summer without slopping out the pin hole with all the towing we do.
ISSUES are like when the crank broke (6.5 GM diesel), the connecting rod went out, locking up the motor(7.3 powerstroke) only first gear and reverse left by the Dodge 2500 HD diesel (covered under warranty) but all things I don't need when there are less than 150K mi.

You just outlined all the reasons why a gasser is a better bet for your type of usage. Interestingly enough, you listed the common problems from all the motors/powertrains listed. (GM 6.5's were horrible, CPS in 7.3's, and Dodge trannies).

To make a diesel pay, you need a high-mileage application... with mostly highway miles involved. A lot of short hop, stop-and-go driving actually increases- not decreases- the diesels operating costs as maintenance starts going through the roof.

 

[rickpilgrim]

Hustler Turf equipment is well known to us. We also have- 2 hustler 1754 walkbehind mowers with sulkies, 2-1536 w/sulkies and a 72" 272C Hustler zero turn mower. As to the winch idea when we are out in the field we always have at least 1 of the 4x4 Toro GM 's we have(snow units in winter) and we haven't got stuck beyond the scope of that.

I am always open to anyone pm ing me

Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[polarbear]

Hustler Turf equipment is well known to us. We also have- 2 hustler 1754 walkbehind mowers with sulkies, 2-1536 w/sulkies and a 72" 272C Hustler zero turn mower. As to the winch idea when we are out in the field we always have at least 1 of the 4x4 Toro GM 's we have(snow units in winter) and we haven't got stuck beyond the scope of that.

I am always open to anyone pm ing me

Thanks everyone for your help!

Kid just laughed- you're covered. We don't have any snow removal equipment in our neck of the woods (no need, for the once-in-a-decade snowstorm that actually sticks). I'll pm you you his email- his name's Nick.

 

[rickpilgrim]

Kid just laughed- you're covered. We don't have any snow removal equipment in our neck of the woods (no need, for the once-in-a-decade snowstorm that actually sticks). I'll pm you you his email- his name's Nick.

Well, that's one of the things with running your own business vs school budjet restraints. NONE of our Toro's were purchased new, all were used, and purchased from one of many municipalities within a 5 hr drive that cycle their equipment on 3 or 5 yr terms. Alot of that stuff has less than 2500 hrs and goes for 1/3 rd to 1/5th of new cost. These municipalities often use these machines for the parks sidewalks and such, so finding 4x4 is not a problem, even our 580( ex colledge unit, 2372.6 hrs) is 4x4 w/cab. I will never buy a truck from them though, as most of them are 3/4 ton 2wd Ford or Dodge with the smallest motor available and usually well maintained but overworked to the max.
We also do 68 smaller city yards, thats why our F-250's 460 needed rebuild at 118.489.5 mi as that was mostly stop and go city mi. That C-6 trans is tough! 123,731.7 mi today and still works like new. On the 1/3 acre or less lawns the Hustler walkbehinds rule, and there's always a 1754 along on the big ( 14 acre truckstop, 26 acre small airport) as a trim mower.
That's why I'm ordering a V10 F-350 monday, as it should have more than enough torque to pull the 36' tri axle gooseneck lowboy trailer we are building in bay #3 of our shop, if I ever get the 86 Chevy K10 out of #2. We can plow with a Ford AOD for many yrs but a 700r4 GM is lucky to make 1 yr.
Thanks for the e-mail address and all the help!

 

[polarbear]

Well, that's one of the things with running your own business vs school budjet restraints. NONE of our Toro's were purchased new, all were used, and purchased from one of many municipalities within a 5 hr drive that cycle their equipment on 3 or 5 yr terms. Alot of that stuff has less than 2500 hrs and goes for 1/3 rd to 1/5th of new cost. These municipalities often use these machines for the parks sidewalks and such, so finding 4x4 is not a problem, even our 580( ex colledge unit, 2372.6 hrs) is 4x4 w/cab. I will never buy a truck from them though, as most of them are 3/4 ton 2wd Ford or Dodge with the smallest motor available and usually well maintained but overworked to the max.
We also do 68 smaller city yards, thats why our F-250's 460 needed rebuild at 118.489.5 mi as that was mostly stop and go city mi. That C-6 trans is tough! 123,731.7 mi today and still works like new. On the 1/3 acre or less lawns the Hustler walkbehinds rule, and there's always a 1754 along on the big ( 14 acre truckstop, 26 acre small airport) as a trim mower.
That's why I'm ordering a V10 F-350 monday, as it should have more than enough torque to pull the 36' tri axle gooseneck lowboy trailer we are building in bay #3 of our shop, if I ever get the 86 Chevy K10 out of #2. We can plow with a Ford AOD for many yrs but a 700r4 GM is lucky to make 1 yr.
Thanks for the e-mail address and all the help!

When you order, I'd strongly suggest the 4.30 gears. It sounds awfully low-geared, but matches well with the V10's power curve. It's a OHC motor that gets its power a lot higher up the rpm band than the old 460. Reports are fuel mileage stays the same- the motor just doesn't work as hard. Good luck to you!

 

[rickpilgrim]

I had planned on the 4.30 set for this as it will be mostly city use, but wasn't sure. Thanks for the suggestion and all else!

 

[rollingford]

if u wait the gen 13 arecoming in the fall 2010 with a bigger diesel engine and finally a transmission that they claim won't suffer the same dissapointing let down that previous years have. but if u are worried abot fuel milage don't they all drink like college students on a crazy night

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

For your type of drivin id go with the V10 we had a 99 and it spit a plug out at 100,000 but that was the problem with the heads they were usin at the time. We just got a new crate motor instead of payin to get a new head. I guess they fixed it now accordin to what Ernie said. The most we hauled was three pallets of stone and dad said it did fine. It never would get better than 11 mpg but it was a crewcab longbed with 35s so we didnt expect any better. It was a good truck and probly wouldve lasted alot longer if mom wouldntve totalled it. Also it liked to shift in and out of overdrive alot when we towed with it so we just turned the overdrive off and it towed like a dream. Hills around here were hard for it with a trailer but itd do 45 or so up an hour long 6% grade.

 

[FordF-SuperDuty]

For your type of drivin id go with the V10 we had a 99 and it spit a plug out at 100,000 but that was the problem with the heads they were usin at the time. We just got a new crate motor instead of payin to get a new head. I guess they fixed it now accordin to what Ernie said. The most we hauled was three pallets of stone and dad said it did fine. It never would get better than 11 mpg but it was a crewcab longbed with 35s so we didnt expect any better. It was a good truck and probly wouldve lasted alot longer if mom wouldntve totalled it. Also it liked to shift in and out of overdrive alot when we towed with it so we just turned the overdrive off and it towed like a dream. Hills around here were hard for it with a trailer but itd do 45 or so up an hour long 6% grade.

What was the gearing on it?

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

4.10s I believe but Im not sure.

 

[FordF-SuperDuty]

4.10s I believe but Im not sure.

With the 4.30s and the more power that the newer ones produce it should tackle grades a bit nicer.

 

[1985 Ford F-150]

Itll still have to be out of overdrive though. Well it would probly do alot better on stock size tires. Remember that truck was puchin 35s as well so that didnt help on torque.

 

[75hiboy]

Took a while to read through all these posts. A lot of good opinions/suggestions. I do have a question though. What is the driving business reason for a "brand new" truck ?? I'm simply suggesting that if the vast majority of your trips are relatively short than maybe you could consider an older truck. Very small initial cash outlay compared to a brand new truck.
I suggest this because I became aware of a guy here in Phoenix who owns a masonry business. He owns six or seven 1978/79 F-250 4WD's. Variety of engines although I found out he's partial to the 460/C6 combo. His theory is to maintain them well. Engine/tranny/axle parts are readily available and inexpensive compared to many of the much newer trucks. Insurance is quite a bit cheaper too. With so many of the new diesels lacking the fuel mileage that helped them sell in the first place, the 'disadvantage' of a gas engine versus the diesel is almost a moot point.
This person has several hundred thousand miles on each truck. andI can assure you that in the Summer Phoenix is only about 2 inches from HELL. That's how hot it is here. So ALL vehicles work OT in the Summer here. Especially in stop/go driving situations. But this guys trucks just keep working and working and working. While I had always wanted the truck I currently have, I was honestly considering the purchase of a new Ford diesel at the time, but the nostalgia bug got me and I went after the oldie but goodie. I believe in "maintaining as new forever", and believe that a good, straight. clean old Ford truckcan still perform a solid and reliable days work.
75 HighBoy in Phoenix

 

[rickpilgrim]

Well it's kinda like this- I doubt any of my summer help could start anything with a carb these days. Second, I'm in WI and they really salt the roads here,so much that collectors are eying up a 1982 GMC crew cab I have as there are very few pre 88 trucks here, especially crew cab 4x4 Dually's that are not in the junkyard. Lastly, if I spend ANY more time in the shop my wife will kill me, mildly put.
I ordered a new V-10 F350 4x4 CC 4x4 Dually 2 weeks back and I was told 8 to 10 week build time, 3/36 warranty set up ready to go. The contract it's used for should pay it off in 2 yrs or so and all we need to do is service it. If only the other 91 things with gas engines I own were that good...........

 

[polarbear]

Fantastic! Pics when it comes in!

 

[rickpilgrim]

The way it sounds I'll have about enough time to pin the hitch on it and go, but I can use the ones my insurance girl takes I suppose!

 

[rickpilgrim]

Today I recieved a call from my Ford dealer that my truck order had been cancelled due to no more V10's being manufactured. They said that I could either ammend my order to diesel, delay for 5 more weeks and get the 6.2 gas or get a refund on my deposit.
When I asked them about telling me V10 would be available untill mid summer the response was that is what they were told in January, but the situation had changed due to more orders than expected. I really wonder how much the rest of the auto industry knows about this, as last week my friend Pogi at the Dod** dealer called to let me know they had a white CC 4x4 dually on the lot, basically optioned my way for 36 or 37K. Seems strange to me as they knew we ordered a Ford, and this dealer quite rarely has any dually on the lot.
I'd like to thank all of you who gave some very good advice and explained the pros and cons of both.

 

[FordF-SuperDuty]

The numbers on the 6.2 are 385 HP at 5,500 RPM and 405 ft-lb of torque at 4,500 RPM.

 

[rickpilgrim]

I learned the hard way never buy the first yr of the "new" engine. Also, we have a 2005 F250 x cab 4x4 lwb that has a 5.4 torqshift auto with 4.10's and you really need to stand on it when towing to get moving and it shifts alot, so much so that at 87K she's starting to slip a bit.
Knowing that the 6.2 is based on the 5.4 and will have similiar power delivery I really dont want that in a 1 ton 4x4 crew cab 8' box dually, and my crew wont either, as when they choose the truck the 87 F250HD with 460/c-6 and the GM's with 500 cid gas are long gone and the new F250 is left for me, and it's not because it's be nice to the boss day.
It's all a moot point now, by the time I could get a new gas dually summer will be here, and in the yard care world it will be 3, maybe 4 weeks before I need it, or lose the contract. Here again, forces beyond my control will affect this, so Monday I'll have to call Pogi and end up with something I really didn't want but really need badly. Go figure

 

[polarbear]

I learned the hard way never buy the first yr of the "new" engine. Also, we have a 2005 F250 x cab 4x4 lwb that has a 5.4 torqshift auto with 4.10's and you really need to stand on it when towing to get moving and it shifts alot, so much so that at 87K she's starting to slip a bit.
Knowing that the 6.2 is based on the 5.4 and will have similiar power delivery I really dont want that in a 1 ton 4x4 crew cab 8' box dually, and my crew wont either, as when they choose the truck the 87 F250HD with 460/c-6 and the GM's with 500 cid gas are long gone and the new F250 is left for me, and it's not because it's be nice to the boss day.
It's all a moot point now, by the time I could get a new gas dually summer will be here, and in the yard care world it will be 3, maybe 4 weeks before I need it, or lose the contract. Here again, forces beyond my control will affect this, so Monday I'll have to call Pogi and end up with something I really didn't want but really need badly. Go figure

Dang- sorry to hear that.